Why should it be so unreasonable that once in a while, like when He gets really lonely, he rings up Reverend Robertson for a chat?
It seems like every other week, Pat Robertson gets himself into hot water by announcing that he received yet another personal message from the Almighty. Right off the bat, I’ll admit two things. One, I have no way of knowing if he does or he doesn’t. After all, hundreds of millions of Christians and Jews believe that any number of people in biblical days were on speaking terms with the Lord. So, why should it be so unreasonable that once in a while, like when He gets really lonely, he rings up Reverend Robertson for a chat?
My second admission, assuming that these conversations are actually taking place, is that I’m jealous. I’d like to know what God is thinking, and I’m not talking about thousands of years ago. I mean, right now, this morning.
For instance, take AIDS. When the cause of that modern-day plague was discovered, some folks insisted it was God’s judgment visited on homosexuals, sort of a viral form of locusts. They bolstered their case by quoting from the Bible. But I was unconvinced. To me, it seemed like a severe case of overkill. I mean, like most straight males, I regard gay sex as rather off-putting, to put it mildly. But, let’s face it, I don’t like watching Woody Allen smooching with young actresses in his movies. That’s just me being me. Besides, over-eating and smoking can lead to terminal diseases, but nobody would suggest that it’s God’s way of punishing people for following up a Double Whopper with a chocolate malt and a Marlboro.
Wouldn’t it be nice to know if God actually regards homosexuality as a capital offense? I mean, maybe He does. After all, except for those people like Arthur Ashe and Paul Michael Glaser’s wife — people who contracted the disease through blood transfusions — only sodomites and drug addicts catch it and spread it around. Maybe God is that judgmental, but I’d like to hear it from Him, personally.
It would also be good to know if God is trying to get rid of Indonesia. After all, it’s not only home to large numbers of Islamic fascists, it is also the world’s number one go-to place when it comes to the child sex trade.
Personally, if the tidal wave, the massive earthquake, and the lava-spewing volcano, are all part of the Almighty’s plan to wipe the place off the face of the earth, I’d understand. I just wish He’d told me before I wrote that check for the tsunami relief fund.
It’s not just the money, you understand, but I’d hate for Him to think I was trying to thwart His plans. I mean, imagine how annoyed God would have been if right after leveling Sodom and Gomorrah, Jerry Lewis had hosted a telethon that raised millions of dollars to re-build the twin cities, and make them good as new!
You CAN know if God is talking to Pat Robertson:
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
You CAN know what God’s will is for today:
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
How do you find the truth?
2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
We live in the dispensation of the Grace of God, where God has done EVERYTHING for us! Namely, salvation through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Apostle Paul prayed for healing three times, and God’s answer was “salvation is sufficient.” In this current age, God is not finding people new jobs…He is not punishing anyone with AIDS, and He is not flying planes into buildings.
We hear the Word of truth, we believe, we are sealed. That’s it. We are to come to God as BELIEVERS and not beggars. What happens here on earth is a result of humanity turning it’s back on God. Everything is our choice as individuals and as a group.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
To know what god is htinking is to know what god has always thought or will think. God is timeless
and what he thought 2000 years ago is not forgotten esp. since there is no time for God. He/she is eternal and hence outside of time and our linear concepts. 2000 years is nothing to God if you believe he/she is eternal and God’s thoughts are encompass an infinity of ideas and possibilities and are hence beyond our comprehension. Pat Robertson is a liar and charlatan.
Whoa, Rob. Lighten up a bit on the “Thou shalt thus and thitherest upon thine”s and “Whoever so doth so be-ist uncleaneth”s, will ya?
First, in plain English, does the failed prophecies and ceased tongues bit mean He is or isn’t chatting with Pat?
Second, the author commented that’d he’d like to know what God is *thinking* right now. His current opinion. He did NOT ask what some other human guesses might be His “will is for today”.
And finally, I’d bet $10 that He can fight His own battle fairly effectively. In fact, let’s make it $15… I’m *that* sure He’d do a much better job than any mortal can. That is, of course, assuming He is now in the business of conversing with His creations.
“Lighten up a bit?” That’s the problem with the original post. If you want to know what God is thinking (yesterday/today/tomorrow) read His bible. And as far as “plain English” goes, the King James bible is written on a 12th grade level. I would have used the 5th grade level NIV, but it is a poor translation in addition to it’s elementary language.
As far as Pat Robertson, no, God is not “chatting” with anyone outside of His Word. The Apostle Paul notes when “that which is perfect is come” prophecies shall cease. In other words, when the bible was done…it was done. No more bible. Not to Mohammed, the Morman’s John Smith, and not to Pat Robertson.
Regarding God’s “battles,” you need only worry about the one that has been faught and won, via the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Chang – Similar what I asked to Joseph: how do you know this? Not “what book have you read that somebody great x 27-grandfather’s best friend’s uncle’s nextdoor neighbor helped another guy write” but how do YOU personally, Chang, know this to be fact?
You state that to know God’s thoughts today is to know what He’s always thought and ever will think. How do you, a mere human, know this? This statement implies familiarity with God’s psyche. It also implies that you (or somebody) has studied the (lack of) change in the thoughts of God over millenia. That’s a pretty fantastic claim.
You state time does not exist for God. As before, you state this as fact. How do you know?
If God’s thoughts encompass an infinity of ideas and possibilities, and are hence beyond our comprehension, how is it the you are so thoroughly acquainted with them? Unless, of course, you are Him. In which case I’m toast.
However, on the point that Pat Robertson is a liar and a charlatan, I whole-heartedly agree. In fact, I’ll go one step further in that ANY human (or organization of humans) who claim to represent, know the will of, know the thoughts of, know the history and/or future of, or do the bidding of God (by whatever name you call Him or Her) are liars and charlatans.
I contend that God is different to each of us as we each have different needs, desires, and fears and that a common God can exist (and be exploited) only insofar as our fears are common, i.e. the unknown, origins, death, and so on. In that regard, Pat may well have his supposed conversations with God, just not my God or your God, his God.
Rob – Reasonable reply, thanks. My only quibble is the circular logic: using the Bible to prove its own authorit
“My only quibble is the circular logic: using the Bible to prove its own authority”
Yes, I have a problem with that as well! It is akin to debating with a liberal. Indeed, it is helpful to verify the authority of the bible from outside historical sources, comparing the bible to itself, and also seeing if what the bible says “works.”
That’s a debate WAY outside of the scope of Intellectual Conservative.
My real pet peave (sp?) is when people discuss the bible without knowing the bible…preachers who preach the bible without knowing the bible…and “Christians” that knowingly or unknowingly haven’t a clue what their bible says.
If God talks to Pat Robertson, why does Pat make outrageous statements and then retract them?
Is he then retracting the word of God as revealed to him through revelation?
I find it very hard to believe that God urges us to assassinate Hugo Chavez. Perhaps (and only just perhaps) Hitler, a mass-murderer, but Hugo Chavez?
Pat argued once that September the Eleventh was God’s revenge for America’s culture of homosexuality.
Oh really?
Remember, God refused to destroy even Sodom and Gomorrah if Abraham cou7ld find ten innocent people there.
I find it hard to believe there were not AT LEAST ten innocent people in the whole of World Trade Plaza that day.
God is love, right?
“It would also be good to know if God is trying to get rid of Indonesia”
trying?? if you believed in god powers, you’d know that if he wanted it gone ,that it would be.
Rob, if what happens on earth is a result of humanity turning it’s back on God, is that why planes were flown into the New York towers, killing about 3,000 people? Was it the destructive culture that has made
its way into the U.S., or the evil desires of Al Queda which caused it? Was God punishing Hitler’s victims?Was he punishing the Islamic women who were deprived of their natural rights?
I don’t see how you can have an answer to these questions which fits in with what you believe. As I see it, people who aspire who do good, do the right thing, will live their lives, for the most part, that way.
Those who choose to take the path of evil, for whatever reason, were given the same free will as everyone else. We really don’t know the mind of God. Christians base their beliefs on the Bible and it’s teachings. I don’t think any of us should assume that a certain catastrophe, whether caused by evil people or by natural occurences, such as an earthquake, flood, forest fire, tornado, etc.is a deliberate act by God to teach human beings how to behave, or to punish them.
To attribute these occurrences to God’s wrath is, IMO, very presumptious of us. How dare we!
Trust Burt to kick over some hornet’s nest . Without even trying, he’s tickled some mighty sore spots.
Either Pat Robertson converses with G-d or he imagines he does. I have melancoly moments like that myself, and I hope G-d hears me. But, like Burt, he’s never rung me up direct to give me the answers. There’ve been times, though, I can almost hear what he’s saying (usually when he’s been whacking me repeatedly to get my attention).
Discernment demands obedience. It is the only virtue evil can not feign. It’s the highest science. Consult a Doctor. Try Aquinas, Augustine, Teresa of Avila, Anthony of Padua, Bonaventure, Terese Lisieau, Catherine of Sienna, Ignatius, Francis Xavier, and others. Happpiest of studies, my friends.
“the King James bible is written on a 12th grade level. I would have used the 5th grade level NIV, but it is a poor translation in addition to it’s elementary language.”
The NIV is actually a much more accurate translation than the King James. It was written by teams of scholars and translated directly from the original texts. Oh, and it wasn’t revised over 60 times by the King of England. The same can’t be said for the King James. Your 12th grade reading skills are impressive, but if you actually are interested in an accurate translation of the Bible the NIV will serve you much better. Or, since your language comprehension is so honed, you could just pick up Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew real quick and read the original texts in their true form.
While God doesn’t always speak out in a loud booming voice like he apparently does with Pat Robertson, you can get some great insights into his character and His instructions for humans in his book – it’s really not as complex and ambiguous as it’s made out to be. It’s a lot like the United States constitution that way. It’s just that everybody reads the Bible like the Supreme Court does the constitution.
Wouldn’t it be nice to know if god actually existed.
Max! Is everything random? Please read Pascal, Augustine, Pasteur, and others. Or go, really cutting-edge and see how all of science, but the never-funded biologists, have abandoned Evolution as fairy-tale. All this order by accident? You can say God, Allah, Jehovah, Klingons, Zeus, or Jackie Mason made everything, but no “prime-mover”? Nonsense? The problem with the Atheists/Progressive types is the inference. If, say, in all deference, if Jacki Mason has rules and order in the natural world then LOGIC and REASON would follow that maybe the affable Jewish guy has something to say about the rules and order humanity is to live by.
“[The NIV] was written by teams of scholars and translated directly from the original texts.”
You are incorrect. There are no original texts. Some texts are older than others…but there are absolutely no originals. What is more, the KJV takes the underlying Hebrew and Greek words and translate them into the closest corresponding English words as possible, while the NIV attempted to take the original thought that was being presented in Greek and Hebrew and then express that thought in English.
As far as translations go, the NIV is an exceptionally poor one.
God told me not to waste my time reading arguments on whether or not He exists. IF I can’t read him in the creation, no translation will do.
Natural selection is definitely not random. There is however a random element to the theory of evolution, in terms of cell mutation, and this can be seen happening all the time in the real world.
So what is it that you are saying, that cells do not occasionally mutate with each successive generation, and that these mutations do not sometimes offer either an advantage or a disadvantage to the individual in question?
Obviously not everything is random, but neither is everything pre-determined or causal either. There exists such a thing as unpredictability in complex systems, perhaps you’ve heard the phrase before. The weather is a very good example but there are many apparently simpler ones. If you set a pendulum swinging of a certain weight on an arm of a certain length then you can predict mathematically how exactly it will behave for a very great number of swings. However, if you put a single hinge in the middle of that same pendulum arm then the behavior of the whole thing becomes erratic and mathmatical unpredictable after only a few swings. Spooky!
Anyway, I think you would agree that DNA and human biology in general would count as being much more complex systems than a simple double hinged pendulum.
The point is that the exact role randomness plays in the physical world has yet to be fully determined, so too the exact role of causality. There is obvious coherence all around us, but why people feel they should have to personify this coherence is beyond me. I guess people feel safer if they imagine the universe to be the product of an ordered intelligence with rules they can live by, instead of being what it clearly sometimes is, unpredictable.
Forgive me specific name of the good Doctor, but in Ann Coulter’s, “Godless”, (with nearly 3 chapters on this toplic alone) she cites a scientist, who is considered the most brilliant, eminent mind in Mathematics. He calculated the odds of “Evolution” happening just as Darwin suggests (Know, of course, Darwin believed in God). Take a crayon. Write a 1-in-1. After the last ’1′, write 40,000 zeroes. There are 40 parts of some cells, a single cell! If any of those 40 parts don’t mesh properly the cell dies! An amoeba is that complex! What does that suggest about other kinds of life?
I was poking around, looking for things on Democracy, and why it is impossible for Islamists to accept. Apparently, the will of the people, cannot supercede the will of Allah.
This led me to ponder whether or not Christ will get just one vote when he returns to his natural home—Pat Robertson’s United States.
Perhaps your humour should have addressed the issue of Democracy being incompatible with Christianity? I realise that there are all kinds of Christianity. One thinks God cares what men on Earth do with their willies. Another thinks Bechtel owning Bolivia’s rainwater rights is a good thing, and good business.
It’s all too much.
Back to the issue: If the re-Christ isn’t held to just one vote, is America a Democracy, or just another Representational Theocracy like, say, Morroco?
I love your site, and I shall return.
Roger
“My only quibble is the circular logic: using the Bible to prove its own authority”
The “circular reasoning” argument against the Bible is absurd. That’s like saying you can’t prove that the President lives in the White House by looking into the White House. It is looking into the White House that will provide the necessary proof. The fulfilled prophecies, the amazing consistency, and the many scientific statements of the Bible prove it to be the Word of God. They provide evidence that it is supernatural in origin.
(taken from wayofthemaster.com)