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	<title>Comments on: The Iran Dilemma</title>
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	<description>Conservative and Libertarian Intellectual Philosophy and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Dave in Georgia</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/07/26/the-iran-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-25992</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave in Georgia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Sep 2006 17:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-iran-dilemma/#comment-25992</guid>
		<description>Red Phillips

Your plan is flawed in a few key areas.

First if we did bring home all of our armed forces from overseas to pursue other careers what would the people who work on bases and in conjunction with bases do?

Many of the people who work for the military and retire switch over to government jobs.

This switching is because we have military located all over the world.  We wouldn’t need a military under your suggestion and thus Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, and all the other defense contractors would either bankrupt or just close their doors.  There is no need for missile systems on commercial airliners.

Where would those who work for such companies seek employment?  The job market would be flooded with highly skilled employees who work primarily on defense equipment.

This job market would have little to offer those who work on missile systems, military aircraft, or in conjunction with DOD contractors.

It has become a necessary evil in that one supports the other and without one you end up with a great many people out of work.  In today’s market with the automakers laying off people, other companies out sourcing workers to foreign nations for cheap labor and the decline of American advancement would leave many on welfare.

So you double the burden of society by bring home all of military members by doing away with jobs that dependants have on base as well as the members not being able to be hired by companies that once supported DOD contracts.

It would be like saying; we need to stop smokers in the US never mind the billions of tax dollars the people spend or the employees the company hires.  The government wont simply accept that billions of tax dollars are no longer available they will turn to the public and increase taxes somewhere else to compensate for the loss.

We minded our own business for eight years we turned a blind eye to the ever increasing terrorist threat which culminated on Sept 11.

When we turn a blind eye those who wish to do us harm will continue so at an alarming rate.  We need to be physically and internationally involved in all aspects of intelligence gathering and be involved in world affairs to the full aspect we can.

When you neglect to be involved you have no idea what’s coming or what could transpire by such neglect.

Since the advent of international travel the &quot;keep to your own&quot; style of government simply went the way of the dinosaurs.

We must be internationally involved in everything if we are to keep our country safe.  Any other choice and we become complacent and suffer such attacks as those who desire to attack us will do so.

Dave in Georgia 

(Government employee)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Red Phillips</p>
<p>Your plan is flawed in a few key areas.</p>
<p>First if we did bring home all of our armed forces from overseas to pursue other careers what would the people who work on bases and in conjunction with bases do?</p>
<p>Many of the people who work for the military and retire switch over to government jobs.</p>
<p>This switching is because we have military located all over the world.  We wouldn’t need a military under your suggestion and thus Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, and all the other defense contractors would either bankrupt or just close their doors.  There is no need for missile systems on commercial airliners.</p>
<p>Where would those who work for such companies seek employment?  The job market would be flooded with highly skilled employees who work primarily on defense equipment.</p>
<p>This job market would have little to offer those who work on missile systems, military aircraft, or in conjunction with DOD contractors.</p>
<p>It has become a necessary evil in that one supports the other and without one you end up with a great many people out of work.  In today’s market with the automakers laying off people, other companies out sourcing workers to foreign nations for cheap labor and the decline of American advancement would leave many on welfare.</p>
<p>So you double the burden of society by bring home all of military members by doing away with jobs that dependants have on base as well as the members not being able to be hired by companies that once supported DOD contracts.</p>
<p>It would be like saying; we need to stop smokers in the US never mind the billions of tax dollars the people spend or the employees the company hires.  The government wont simply accept that billions of tax dollars are no longer available they will turn to the public and increase taxes somewhere else to compensate for the loss.</p>
<p>We minded our own business for eight years we turned a blind eye to the ever increasing terrorist threat which culminated on Sept 11.</p>
<p>When we turn a blind eye those who wish to do us harm will continue so at an alarming rate.  We need to be physically and internationally involved in all aspects of intelligence gathering and be involved in world affairs to the full aspect we can.</p>
<p>When you neglect to be involved you have no idea what’s coming or what could transpire by such neglect.</p>
<p>Since the advent of international travel the &#8220;keep to your own&#8221; style of government simply went the way of the dinosaurs.</p>
<p>We must be internationally involved in everything if we are to keep our country safe.  Any other choice and we become complacent and suffer such attacks as those who desire to attack us will do so.</p>
<p>Dave in Georgia </p>
<p>(Government employee)</p>
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		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/07/26/the-iran-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-17111</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 04:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-iran-dilemma/#comment-17111</guid>
		<description>David, that last post holds out a slim glimmer of hope for the future of genuinely &quot;intellectual&quot; conservatism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, that last post holds out a slim glimmer of hope for the future of genuinely &#8220;intellectual&#8221; conservatism.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/07/26/the-iran-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-16063</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 01:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-iran-dilemma/#comment-16063</guid>
		<description>Rachel, Ahmadinejad did not threaten to wipe Israel off the map. I know this is how it is reported in our media but, like the WMD  fiasco, much of what we&#039;re told is pro-Israeli war propaganda. Juan Cole,a middle east scholar who reads Persian and has little respect for Ahmadinejade, has a website entitled Informed Comment. He translates (5/03/06) and explains that those words were not a threat to wipe out Israel. He was quoting the Imams prediction that the Zionist regime would be erased from the pages of history. To wish to see the end of a political regime is not the same as wishing to see the people under that regime dead. After all ,the people in power in Iran also wished to see the end of the Shah&#039;s regime without wishing the death of their people. He also hasn&#039;t denied the holocaust, he neither confirms nor denies it. He noticed that in the so-called free world you can get thrown in prison if you challenge it. Strange that! If it&#039;s such an established fact that it happened as we&#039;re told why can&#039;t there be an open discussion about it? Please quit spreading the war mongering propaganda!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rachel, Ahmadinejad did not threaten to wipe Israel off the map. I know this is how it is reported in our media but, like the WMD  fiasco, much of what we&#8217;re told is pro-Israeli war propaganda. Juan Cole,a middle east scholar who reads Persian and has little respect for Ahmadinejade, has a website entitled Informed Comment. He translates (5/03/06) and explains that those words were not a threat to wipe out Israel. He was quoting the Imams prediction that the Zionist regime would be erased from the pages of history. To wish to see the end of a political regime is not the same as wishing to see the people under that regime dead. After all ,the people in power in Iran also wished to see the end of the Shah&#8217;s regime without wishing the death of their people. He also hasn&#8217;t denied the holocaust, he neither confirms nor denies it. He noticed that in the so-called free world you can get thrown in prison if you challenge it. Strange that! If it&#8217;s such an established fact that it happened as we&#8217;re told why can&#8217;t there be an open discussion about it? Please quit spreading the war mongering propaganda!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Spoonhour</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/07/26/the-iran-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-15260</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Spoonhour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 18:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-iran-dilemma/#comment-15260</guid>
		<description>Whether we like it or not the rules of war on terrorism has to change and be utilized by the USA or we will have lost the war. First: Terrorists have no rules! They have one objective being the destruction of their enemies...namely the Jews and the Americans as prime targets. We are failing to get inside their minds with a vicious campaign designed to strike fear into them. They must be told over and over again by our side that we do not fear them and we are dedicated to hunting every one of them down until they have disappeared from the face of the earth! Ram it down their throats very day until they finally understand we mean business!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether we like it or not the rules of war on terrorism has to change and be utilized by the USA or we will have lost the war. First: Terrorists have no rules! They have one objective being the destruction of their enemies&#8230;namely the Jews and the Americans as prime targets. We are failing to get inside their minds with a vicious campaign designed to strike fear into them. They must be told over and over again by our side that we do not fear them and we are dedicated to hunting every one of them down until they have disappeared from the face of the earth! Ram it down their throats very day until they finally understand we mean business!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/07/26/the-iran-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-15184</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jul 2006 19:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-iran-dilemma/#comment-15184</guid>
		<description>There seems to be here a desire to go back into isolation.  I mind remind everyone that we tried that while the English and the French went about appeasing Hitler.  While many American hearts sided with the people who would soon become our allies during WWII, it was still felt that we should stay out of the whole affair. It was Japanese bombs that brought us into the Second World War. (Yes I know of all the theories about how FDR somehow orchestrated that bombing). The fact remains that once we were in we were in for the long halu and have emerged as the World&#039;s Superpower.  

A part of me would like to go back into isolation, though I doubt we could stay there for long. But I do long for a US that could care less about world affairs and just look after our own. One might say that that is rather cold, but let&#039;s face it, a good part of the world doesn&#039;t like us anyway.  Yet whenever and whereever there is a disaster the first nation to respond is the United States.  I just think it is in our nature to do so, it is who and what we are, our psyche, our makeup.  

Can you imagine a world without the US involved? I wrote an essay on this very topic once for my website and I will submit the link for those that might care to read it.

http://tbbc01.tripod.com/id22.html

I am not sure if this will work but if you wish you could certainly cut and paste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There seems to be here a desire to go back into isolation.  I mind remind everyone that we tried that while the English and the French went about appeasing Hitler.  While many American hearts sided with the people who would soon become our allies during WWII, it was still felt that we should stay out of the whole affair. It was Japanese bombs that brought us into the Second World War. (Yes I know of all the theories about how FDR somehow orchestrated that bombing). The fact remains that once we were in we were in for the long halu and have emerged as the World&#8217;s Superpower.  </p>
<p>A part of me would like to go back into isolation, though I doubt we could stay there for long. But I do long for a US that could care less about world affairs and just look after our own. One might say that that is rather cold, but let&#8217;s face it, a good part of the world doesn&#8217;t like us anyway.  Yet whenever and whereever there is a disaster the first nation to respond is the United States.  I just think it is in our nature to do so, it is who and what we are, our psyche, our makeup.  </p>
<p>Can you imagine a world without the US involved? I wrote an essay on this very topic once for my website and I will submit the link for those that might care to read it.</p>
<p><a href="http://tbbc01.tripod.com/id22.html" rel="nofollow">http://tbbc01.tripod.com/id22.html</a></p>
<p>I am not sure if this will work but if you wish you could certainly cut and paste.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron S.</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/07/26/the-iran-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-14985</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-iran-dilemma/#comment-14985</guid>
		<description>Red, I agree about the responsibility part.  Each country, in the end, is responsible for it&#039;s own defense.

My question is, what are the long-range consequences of your policy?  Do you feel that if we got out of world affairs that the world would just leave us alone? Do we become liked in the world? Do we become isolated sitting ducks?

Your plan, I take it, would also bring our intelligence services (as poor as they&#039;ve been recently) out of the field.  In such a case, we would only know what happens in the world after it happens.  If our enemies decided to make a concerted effort against us (most likely a nuclear attack first), we would have no inkling until they actually attacked.  Would this be in our best interests?

I like the theory of &quot;minding our own business&quot;, but sadly I don&#039;t think it&#039;s practical in the real world.

There may be something in the constitution that would allow us to form alliances and defend them, but I&#039;m really not sure.  Is there something specific in there about sending our military to aid other countries?  I doubt it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Red, I agree about the responsibility part.  Each country, in the end, is responsible for it&#8217;s own defense.</p>
<p>My question is, what are the long-range consequences of your policy?  Do you feel that if we got out of world affairs that the world would just leave us alone? Do we become liked in the world? Do we become isolated sitting ducks?</p>
<p>Your plan, I take it, would also bring our intelligence services (as poor as they&#8217;ve been recently) out of the field.  In such a case, we would only know what happens in the world after it happens.  If our enemies decided to make a concerted effort against us (most likely a nuclear attack first), we would have no inkling until they actually attacked.  Would this be in our best interests?</p>
<p>I like the theory of &#8220;minding our own business&#8221;, but sadly I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s practical in the real world.</p>
<p>There may be something in the constitution that would allow us to form alliances and defend them, but I&#8217;m really not sure.  Is there something specific in there about sending our military to aid other countries?  I doubt it.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/07/26/the-iran-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-14971</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-iran-dilemma/#comment-14971</guid>
		<description>If the Jihadists were cursing us with spears and muttered gibberish on some isolated island somewhere in the Pacific, I could care as my &quot;paleo&quot; brothers.  The fact is they aren&#039;t chanting voodoo spells from coconut trees.  They&#039;re driving planes into your mom&#039;s office building, blowing up children in supermarkets, and beheading innocence as entertainment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Jihadists were cursing us with spears and muttered gibberish on some isolated island somewhere in the Pacific, I could care as my &#8220;paleo&#8221; brothers.  The fact is they aren&#8217;t chanting voodoo spells from coconut trees.  They&#8217;re driving planes into your mom&#8217;s office building, blowing up children in supermarkets, and beheading innocence as entertainment.</p>
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		<title>By: Red Phillips</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/07/26/the-iran-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-14967</link>
		<dc:creator>Red Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-iran-dilemma/#comment-14967</guid>
		<description>DF Lickiss,

You are absolutely correct that the US has a long history of interventions. My question is were those interventions supported by the CONSERVATIVES of the day. Emphatically no. Conservatives opposed the Spanish American War, our entry into WWI, our entry into WWII (until we were attacked), and the hard core that weren&#039;t swayed by the anti-Communist intervenionism that morphed conservatism during the Cold War, opposed our entry into Korea and Vietnam. I might add that conservatives also opposed Lincoln&#039;s invasion of the Confederacy. The &quot;conservatism&quot; of today is a 50 + year old Cold War &quot;conservatism&quot; that can&#039;t give up its Cold War interventionist mindset and return to the clear non-interventionist, small government roots of conservatism.

If people want to be interventionist then fine. Although they ought to do the fighting themselves. But don&#039;t connect interventionism with conservatism. That is butchering the language.

Ron S., the protection of Israel is the responsibility only of Israel. Just as the protection of Canada is the responsibility of Canada, France of France, Kuwait of Kuwait, etc. etc. etc. I personally would repeal the law against Americans serving as mercinaries. If some Americans want to go fight for Israel then be my guest. But why should our military fight for another country? Where is that in the Constitution? 

Red</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DF Lickiss,</p>
<p>You are absolutely correct that the US has a long history of interventions. My question is were those interventions supported by the CONSERVATIVES of the day. Emphatically no. Conservatives opposed the Spanish American War, our entry into WWI, our entry into WWII (until we were attacked), and the hard core that weren&#8217;t swayed by the anti-Communist intervenionism that morphed conservatism during the Cold War, opposed our entry into Korea and Vietnam. I might add that conservatives also opposed Lincoln&#8217;s invasion of the Confederacy. The &#8220;conservatism&#8221; of today is a 50 + year old Cold War &#8220;conservatism&#8221; that can&#8217;t give up its Cold War interventionist mindset and return to the clear non-interventionist, small government roots of conservatism.</p>
<p>If people want to be interventionist then fine. Although they ought to do the fighting themselves. But don&#8217;t connect interventionism with conservatism. That is butchering the language.</p>
<p>Ron S., the protection of Israel is the responsibility only of Israel. Just as the protection of Canada is the responsibility of Canada, France of France, Kuwait of Kuwait, etc. etc. etc. I personally would repeal the law against Americans serving as mercinaries. If some Americans want to go fight for Israel then be my guest. But why should our military fight for another country? Where is that in the Constitution? </p>
<p>Red</p>
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		<title>By: Ron S.</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/07/26/the-iran-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-14958</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-iran-dilemma/#comment-14958</guid>
		<description>I must admit that it&#039;s tempting to have the U.S. become a turtle instead of a hawk.  The temptation to just let them all kill each other is great.  We&#039;d still be hated in the world even if we did stop all foreign intervention.  We&#039;re prosperous and free and that is enough for alot of countries to hate us for.

The only things that bother me about it are that if we did stop all foreign intervention and basically became hermits to the world...well, we could kiss Israel goodbye.  Say hello to 1967 all over again, but this time the arabs probably won&#039;t be as inept as they were then.  Removing ourselves from the picture would remove all restraints from arab countries regarding Israel.  They would know that once the U.S. is out of the way, there would be no reason not to remove those pesky Jews from the planet.  Who else would stick up for Israel?  Europe? Not likely, since anti-semitism is on the rise there anyway.  The U.N.?  ha-ha.  They might give the arab countries involved a mild reprimand when it was all over, but that&#039;s about it.

The other thing is, what happens with the rest of the world?  Will Islamo-fascism stop just because we are out of the picture, or will they just grow stronger?  If they get stronger, will they just leave us alone because we are no longer active in the world&#039;s affairs?  Will we stop being the &quot;Great Satan&quot; to them?  Or will we just roll over for them?  Would we just be waiting for them to get strong enough to actually invade us while we sat around and let them?  Can we afford to do that?  When they do finally attack us, who will help us defeat them?  Why would anyone help us when we have withdrawn our support from everyone?

Personally, I would like to pull in all our oars and let the rest of them kill themselves, but I don&#039;t think that that is likely to happen.

Just a few thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must admit that it&#8217;s tempting to have the U.S. become a turtle instead of a hawk.  The temptation to just let them all kill each other is great.  We&#8217;d still be hated in the world even if we did stop all foreign intervention.  We&#8217;re prosperous and free and that is enough for alot of countries to hate us for.</p>
<p>The only things that bother me about it are that if we did stop all foreign intervention and basically became hermits to the world&#8230;well, we could kiss Israel goodbye.  Say hello to 1967 all over again, but this time the arabs probably won&#8217;t be as inept as they were then.  Removing ourselves from the picture would remove all restraints from arab countries regarding Israel.  They would know that once the U.S. is out of the way, there would be no reason not to remove those pesky Jews from the planet.  Who else would stick up for Israel?  Europe? Not likely, since anti-semitism is on the rise there anyway.  The U.N.?  ha-ha.  They might give the arab countries involved a mild reprimand when it was all over, but that&#8217;s about it.</p>
<p>The other thing is, what happens with the rest of the world?  Will Islamo-fascism stop just because we are out of the picture, or will they just grow stronger?  If they get stronger, will they just leave us alone because we are no longer active in the world&#8217;s affairs?  Will we stop being the &#8220;Great Satan&#8221; to them?  Or will we just roll over for them?  Would we just be waiting for them to get strong enough to actually invade us while we sat around and let them?  Can we afford to do that?  When they do finally attack us, who will help us defeat them?  Why would anyone help us when we have withdrawn our support from everyone?</p>
<p>Personally, I would like to pull in all our oars and let the rest of them kill themselves, but I don&#8217;t think that that is likely to happen.</p>
<p>Just a few thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: DF Lickiss</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/07/26/the-iran-dilemma/comment-page-1/#comment-14956</link>
		<dc:creator>DF Lickiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-iran-dilemma/#comment-14956</guid>
		<description>The United States has had a long history of international intervention.  For more than the last century (half of our time as a nation) we have sent our troops over seas many times to protect our interests, carve out territories for ourselves (Hawaii) and even a colony or two (Philippines where we fought a successful war that was similar to what we face in Iraq today).  We forced open Japan’s doors in 1888, we have been sending troops to support our interests in Central America since 1990 (most recent being Bush Sr. invading Panama in 1989), we protected, and continue to do so, both Taiwan and South Korea, we tried to save Vietnam but messed up in a number of ways.  This is only a brief look at our adventurism over seas.  Any good history text would give you many more examples and put some flesh on the bones I have outlined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The United States has had a long history of international intervention.  For more than the last century (half of our time as a nation) we have sent our troops over seas many times to protect our interests, carve out territories for ourselves (Hawaii) and even a colony or two (Philippines where we fought a successful war that was similar to what we face in Iraq today).  We forced open Japan’s doors in 1888, we have been sending troops to support our interests in Central America since 1990 (most recent being Bush Sr. invading Panama in 1989), we protected, and continue to do so, both Taiwan and South Korea, we tried to save Vietnam but messed up in a number of ways.  This is only a brief look at our adventurism over seas.  Any good history text would give you many more examples and put some flesh on the bones I have outlined.</p>
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