Comments on: Welfare is the Real Problem, Not Immigration http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/08/30/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/ Conservative and Libertarian Intellectual Philosophy and Politics Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:00:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Joe merlin http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/08/30/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-22441 Joe merlin Thu, 31 Aug 2006 22:54:31 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/#comment-22441 Who is covering the cost of the court system, including attorneys defending against deportation of illegal aliens? Any calculated costs available? RSVP Who is covering the cost of the court system, including attorneys defending against deportation of illegal aliens? Any calculated costs available? RSVP

]]> By: Patrick Mulligan http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/08/30/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-22380 Patrick Mulligan Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:32:58 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/#comment-22380 To the writer: a good, unbiased resource to consult on this subject is www.cis.org . Read both of their 2004 reports on the fiscal impacts of illegal immigration carefully. After all expenses paid and taxes collected are considered, illegal immigrants take 10 billion dollars more in federal handouts than they pay in taxes. That's not including state and local public assistance dollars (like school lunch programs, in-state tuition given to illegal aliens, food stamps) or welfare given to the legalized children of illegal aliens, that's just at the federal level. Illegal immigration and the welfare state are both problems of epidemic proportion. They both need to be dealt with. But you don't excuse a group of people flagrantly breaking the law by blaming the welfare state. There is not an either/or solution, it's a both/together solution that needs to be dealt with.  (Note:  This comment was edited for unacceptable language.) To the writer: a good, unbiased resource to consult on this subject is http://www.cis.org . Read both of their 2004 reports on the fiscal impacts of illegal immigration carefully. After all expenses paid and taxes collected are considered, illegal immigrants take 10 billion dollars more in federal handouts than they pay in taxes. That's not including state and local public assistance dollars (like school lunch programs, in-state tuition given to illegal aliens, food stamps) or welfare given to the legalized children of illegal aliens, that's just at the federal level. Illegal immigration and the welfare state are both problems of epidemic proportion. They both need to be dealt with. But you don't excuse a group of people flagrantly breaking the law by blaming the welfare state. There is not an either/or solution, it's a both/together solution that needs to be dealt with.  (Note:  This comment was edited for unacceptable language.)

]]> By: parsimonious Mom http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/08/30/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-22340 parsimonious Mom Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:54:41 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/#comment-22340 My daughter and her college roomates were pressured to have an older sudanese woman live with them so that her baby could be a citizen. Fortunately my daughter was not cowtowed with appeals for compassion. After all, the future of her children depends on not allowing people in who are against our ideals of freedom and for systems like sharia law or communism. Back in the days when my single mom received welfare the amount was minimum subsistance, approximately one fourth of poverty level. Now poverty level definition has risen substantially and so has the relative welfare payments. It was not comfortable to be half starving in the late sixties. Now with all the food and housing and better medical coverage it is extremely difficult to get out of welfare coziness. Advanced education seems to be the ticket out My daughter and her college roomates were pressured to have an older sudanese woman live with them so that her baby could be a citizen. Fortunately my daughter was not cowtowed with appeals for compassion. After all, the future of her children depends on not allowing people in who are against our ideals of freedom and for systems like sharia law or communism. Back in the days when my single mom received welfare the amount was minimum subsistance, approximately one fourth of poverty level. Now poverty level definition has risen substantially and so has the relative welfare payments. It was not comfortable to be half starving in the late sixties. Now with all the food and housing and better medical coverage it is extremely difficult to get out of welfare coziness. Advanced education seems to be the ticket out

]]> By: Audriana http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/08/30/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-22328 Audriana Thu, 31 Aug 2006 00:23:07 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/#comment-22328 These last six commentators are exactly right. Yes, welfare in and of itself is a problem, but it is an altogether different issue from illegal immigration. There are several important reasons to oppose unrestricted immigration, and none of them is about keeping "the good life for ourselves". Maudlin gushing about how "enterprising" the aliens are, or about how they're human beings, too, and about how we would do the same thing if we lived in Mexico. . .all so logically useless. There have always been limits on immigration in this country and in every other country. This new term I've heard thrown around out here in California --"immigration restrictionists" applies to every reasonable person, in every country, everywhere! During the May demonstrations, my brother overheard two nurses talking, one Mexican, the other Fillipino. The Mexican woman said "Why aren't your people out there? This applies to you guys, too." And the Fillipino woman answered, with an appropriate facial expression, "My people do it right. I've been waiting eleven years to get my sister into this country." If I knew who she was, I would kiss her. These last six commentators are exactly right. Yes, welfare in and of itself is a problem, but it is an altogether different issue from illegal immigration. There are several important reasons to oppose unrestricted immigration, and none of them is about keeping “the good life for ourselves”. Maudlin gushing about how “enterprising” the aliens are, or about how they’re human beings, too, and about how we would do the same thing if we lived in Mexico. . .all so logically useless.

There have always been limits on immigration in this country and in every other country. This new term I’ve heard thrown around out here in California –”immigration restrictionists” applies to every reasonable person, in every country, everywhere!

During the May demonstrations, my brother overheard two nurses talking, one Mexican, the other Fillipino. The Mexican woman said “Why aren’t your people out there? This applies to you guys, too.” And the Fillipino woman answered, with an appropriate facial expression, “My people do it right. I’ve been waiting eleven years to get my sister into this country.”

If I knew who she was, I would kiss her.

]]> By: TJ http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/08/30/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-22303 TJ Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:26:07 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/#comment-22303 In America, illegal aliens are disproportionately responsible for the number of: -children born out of wedlock -HIV+ cases -abortions -welfare recipients -illegally cast votes -dollars spent printing documents in Spanish -violent crimes committed. In that light, Mr. Semmens' points have very little relevance. The welfare state is a problem, but even if illegal immigrants are only a tiny portion of that problem there are still plenty of other reasons to send them packing. Not to mention, we have (or had) a culture of our own here in America, and I'm fed up with having it watered downed by all the little unofficial provinces of Mexico scattered across our nation that think May 5th is more important than July 4th. In America, illegal aliens are disproportionately responsible for the number of:
-children born out of wedlock
-HIV+ cases
-abortions
-welfare recipients
-illegally cast votes
-dollars spent printing documents in Spanish
-violent crimes committed.
In that light, Mr. Semmens’ points have very little relevance. The welfare state is a problem, but even if illegal immigrants are only a tiny portion of that problem there are still plenty of other reasons to send them packing. Not to mention, we have (or had) a culture of our own here in America, and I’m fed up with having it watered downed by all the little unofficial provinces of Mexico scattered across our nation that think May 5th is more important than July 4th.

]]> By: Nathan http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/08/30/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-22296 Nathan Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:43:19 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/#comment-22296 John, thanks for listing that video (http://www.techniguy.com/Newsletters/archives/ImmigrationasanEnvironmentalIssue.htm). Excellent resource. John, thanks for listing that video (http://www.techniguy.com/Newsletters/archives/ImmigrationasanEnvironmentalIssue.htm). Excellent resource.

]]> By: Amy Garcia http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/08/30/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-22294 Amy Garcia Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:01:57 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/#comment-22294 This article absolutely strikes at the heart of the problem. In my state, Pennsylvania, welfare accounts for 33% of the budget even at a time when unemployment is at >5%. There are reports that welfare workers go to the malls and find people who "look like" they could use some help. I live in an area that is flooded with illegal immigrants. The system makes it simple to be a dependent on the state for healthcare. These are people who come from socialist countries and see America as the fulfillment of the broken promises that their corrupt governments never delivered on. While I know illegals who love the American dream there certainly are a large percent who believe it is governments responsibility to take care of them. For example, I know an illegal who entered the country and within 1 week needed a cortizone shot for his previously hurt wrist. He went to the emergency room and was told there were programs for him and he need not pay. He was never asked if he could pay! We have tolerated too much taxation in the name of social reform and yet we have soldier's at war without the best protective equipment. The job of the federal government is to defend, we the people can manage the rest. This article absolutely strikes at the heart of the problem. In my state, Pennsylvania, welfare accounts for 33% of the budget even at a time when unemployment is at >5%. There are reports that welfare workers go to the malls and find people who “look like” they could use some help.
I live in an area that is flooded with illegal immigrants. The system makes it simple to be a dependent on the state for healthcare. These are people who come from socialist countries and see America as the fulfillment of the broken promises that their corrupt governments never delivered on. While I know illegals who love the American dream there certainly are a large percent who believe it is governments responsibility to take care of them.
For example, I know an illegal who entered the country and within 1 week needed a cortizone shot for his previously hurt wrist. He went to the emergency room and was told there were programs for him and he need not pay. He was never asked if he could pay!
We have tolerated too much taxation in the name of social reform and yet we have soldier’s at war without the best protective equipment. The job of the federal government is to defend, we the people can manage the rest.

]]> By: David Tatosian http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/08/30/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-22293 David Tatosian Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:00:10 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/#comment-22293 “…Those who run the gauntlet of fences, guards, and environmental hardships to illegally enter the United States evince a measure of enterprise that would seem to make them unlikely to seek out welfare benefits…” Well how about those plucky, enterprising illegal aliens who run that gauntlet to birth children granted citizenship under a woefully misinterpreted 14th amendment? Is free health care considered a welfare benefit or is it otherwise defined? How about bi lingual education programs, funded by taxpayers, for the children of those enterprising illegal aliens? How about those enterprising illegals currently incarcerated at taxpayer expense? ”… The pernicious effects of the welfare system would continue to take a toll even if our borders were perfectly impervious to illegal penetration…” If the borders were functional and actually prevented the million or so illegal aliens that currently enter our nation annually, the toll referred to would not be an ever-expanding one. And if the millions of illegals currently skulking around on our soil could somehow be induced to leave this fair land, the toll would be correspondingly diminished. In short, the problem isn’t Mexicans, but illegal aliens from all over. It just so happens that more than half the illegals in our country are Mexicans, and more than half the remaining number are from Latin America. Of course the issue is one of race and nationality. Hispanic racial solidarity is constantly employed to garner support for the predominantly Hispanic illegal alien population. Did the author miss the March and Mayday demonstrations? Of what use is blubbering about the evils of the welfare state while reminding us there are native born Americans already soaking the American taxpayer? The article is ridiculous and totally misses the point . The author must be a libertarian. “…Those who run the gauntlet of fences, guards, and environmental hardships to illegally enter the United States evince a measure of enterprise that would seem to make them unlikely to seek out welfare benefits…”
Well how about those plucky, enterprising illegal aliens who run that gauntlet to birth children granted citizenship under a woefully misinterpreted 14th amendment?
Is free health care considered a welfare benefit or is it otherwise defined?
How about bi lingual education programs, funded by taxpayers, for the children of those enterprising illegal aliens?
How about those enterprising illegals currently incarcerated at taxpayer expense?
”… The pernicious effects of the welfare system would continue to take a toll even if our borders were perfectly impervious to illegal penetration…”
If the borders were functional and actually prevented the million or so illegal aliens that currently enter our nation annually, the toll referred to would not be an ever-expanding one. And if the millions of illegals currently skulking around on our soil could somehow be induced to leave this fair land, the toll would be correspondingly diminished.
In short, the problem isn’t Mexicans, but illegal aliens from all over. It just so happens that more than half the illegals in our country are Mexicans, and more than half the remaining number are from Latin America.
Of course the issue is one of race and nationality. Hispanic racial solidarity is constantly employed to garner support for the predominantly Hispanic illegal alien population.
Did the author miss the March and Mayday demonstrations?
Of what use is blubbering about the evils of the welfare state while reminding us there are native born Americans already soaking the American taxpayer?
The article is ridiculous and totally misses the point .
The author must be a libertarian.

]]> By: John http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/08/30/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-22281 John Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:10:35 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/#comment-22281 This article is just silly. Hispanics take 2 - 3 more from the economy than what they put in. When you think of "welfare," also think of social services, public education, etc. And this does n't even take into account that most Mexicans hate the USA, plan on retaking the Southwest, and are currently aiding many terrorists. Regarding the environment / economy, and what Mexicans will do, see: http://www.techniguy.com/Newsletters/archives/ImmigrationasanEnvironmentalIssue.htm This is a must-see short video by Roy Beck from NumbersUSA. This article is just silly. Hispanics take 2 – 3 more from the economy than what they put in. When you think of “welfare,” also think of social services, public education, etc. And this does n’t even take into account that most Mexicans hate the USA, plan on retaking the Southwest, and are currently aiding many terrorists.

Regarding the environment / economy, and what Mexicans will do, see:

http://www.techniguy.com/Newsletters/archives/ImmigrationasanEnvironmentalIssue.htm

This is a must-see short video by Roy Beck from NumbersUSA.

]]> By: JJ http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/08/30/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-22268 JJ Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:08:25 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/welfare-is-the-real-problem-not-immigration/#comment-22268 Derek Leaberry , I think that you make some interesting points. I am distressed that the current republican leadership and the white house do not seem that concerned about the immigration problem. However, I do not believe that this is how it has to be. There is a division in the Republican party between paleo and neocons. If a neocon were to win the presidency I believe that we would see a stemming of this tide. I am not ready to give up at all. Look, I knew that Bush was going to be a weak republican when it came to these social issues. However, I held my nose in order to get him in and have him load the Supreme Court. That was the point and this is why republicans threw a fit with the Harriet Meyers situation. However, now that that is done it is time to have a war within the party. We need to throw our votes back to Reaganites who may not win now but will start to force the party to change. Once Republicans see that we will not vote for them just because they have an R right after their name things will change. If there is one thing Republicans do well it is to clean house and get in some of the greatest leaders in our history (Reagan and Gingrich). Also, while you are right that the South and Central American deluge of immigrants does carry with it a cultural undertone that is not good for conservatism- that point is de facto not the principle reason they are coming. I do not believe that the average South and Central American immigrant is coming over with the intent to destroy U.S. infrastructure and or conservative ideology. They are coming because they can find better paying jobs and free social services here. Pregnant women who start having contractions are driven across the border to hospitals that will give them better care and free services. The welfare state is the primary reason they are coming and if that were removed and they could not get jobs or be allowed to drain social services to the brink then I think they would not be in such a rush to come over. Derek Leaberry ,
I think that you make some interesting points. I am distressed that the current republican leadership and the white house do not seem that concerned about the immigration problem. However, I do not believe that this is how it has to be. There is a division in the Republican party between paleo and neocons. If a neocon were to win the presidency I believe that we would see a stemming of this tide. I am not ready to give up at all. Look, I knew that Bush was going to be a weak republican when it came to these social issues. However, I held my nose in order to get him in and have him load the Supreme Court. That was the point and this is why republicans threw a fit with the Harriet Meyers situation. However, now that that is done it is time to have a war within the party. We need to throw our votes back to Reaganites who may not win now but will start to force the party to change. Once Republicans see that we will not vote for them just because they have an R right after their name things will change. If there is one thing Republicans do well it is to clean house and get in some of the greatest leaders in our history (Reagan and Gingrich).
Also, while you are right that the South and Central American deluge of immigrants does carry with it a cultural undertone that is not good for conservatism- that point is de facto not the principle reason they are coming. I do not believe that the average South and Central American immigrant is coming over with the intent to destroy U.S. infrastructure and or conservative ideology. They are coming because they can find better paying jobs and free social services here. Pregnant women who start having contractions are driven across the border to hospitals that will give them better care and free services. The welfare state is the primary reason they are coming and if that were removed and they could not get jobs or be allowed to drain social services to the brink then I think they would not be in such a rush to come over.

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