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	<title>Comments on: The War Strategy</title>
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	<description>Conservative and Libertarian Intellectual Philosophy and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/09/15/the-war-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-28136</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 07:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-war-strategy/#comment-28136</guid>
		<description>&quot;Had America been founded by the African or by the Arab and not by the white Christian European, would America be what it is today? Would it have achieved its greatness? The same question of course could be asked of the Mexican?&quot;

A more interesting question would be, what if the USA was founded (populated) by the Spanish or Portugese rather than the British? Compare the difference between the north and south. The Spanish and Portugese were content to plunder the resources to send back home - the silver and gold. The British influenced system has always seemed to be more productive - ex-British colonial areas have a tendency to be more productive than areas under sway of the other colonial empires.


To go back, &quot;To take this query further, to the edge of PC, are the peoples of the African continent or of the Middle East and their cultures and religions of the same order as the West&#8217;s?&quot;

The blessing and curse of the Middle East has been and will remain oil. Before the need of large quantities of oil, the Middle East remain an essentially tribal area - only trusting in close relations. Only great leaders have managed to exert any kind of influence that united them. Were it not for oil, they would remain largely backwood and a danger only to themselves. Oil changed that. Whereas the majority are still grounded in tribalism, the minority in charge have exploited the massive wealth of oil to transform the physical nature of the Middle East. You can get all the modern wonders you find in the West. The big difference is that they jumped (for want of a better word) past the middle stages that Western Europe went through to get there. Extreme culture shock and a resulting retreat to the past...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Had America been founded by the African or by the Arab and not by the white Christian European, would America be what it is today? Would it have achieved its greatness? The same question of course could be asked of the Mexican?&quot;</p>
<p>A more interesting question would be, what if the USA was founded (populated) by the Spanish or Portugese rather than the British? Compare the difference between the north and south. The Spanish and Portugese were content to plunder the resources to send back home &#8211; the silver and gold. The British influenced system has always seemed to be more productive &#8211; ex-British colonial areas have a tendency to be more productive than areas under sway of the other colonial empires.</p>
<p>To go back, &quot;To take this query further, to the edge of PC, are the peoples of the African continent or of the Middle East and their cultures and religions of the same order as the West&rsquo;s?&quot;</p>
<p>The blessing and curse of the Middle East has been and will remain oil. Before the need of large quantities of oil, the Middle East remain an essentially tribal area &#8211; only trusting in close relations. Only great leaders have managed to exert any kind of influence that united them. Were it not for oil, they would remain largely backwood and a danger only to themselves. Oil changed that. Whereas the majority are still grounded in tribalism, the minority in charge have exploited the massive wealth of oil to transform the physical nature of the Middle East. You can get all the modern wonders you find in the West. The big difference is that they jumped (for want of a better word) past the middle stages that Western Europe went through to get there. Extreme culture shock and a resulting retreat to the past&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Jackson</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/09/15/the-war-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-27632</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-war-strategy/#comment-27632</guid>
		<description>David --

“Is democracy the answer to Islam?” I’m not sure whether I agree or disagree with you.  It depends on how you look at certain key issues.

Lenin “bypassed” the stages of capitalist development to impose Marxism on a largely agrarian society, and the experiment failed.  It failed for two reasons though.  First, it violated the theory that the proletariat must lead the way; therefore the cultural/social/political/economic conditions were not “right,” and the groundwork for a self-perpetuating “success” was not properly laid.  And, it failed because Marxism/communism is inherently flawed, and therefore was doomed to failure through its own inconsistencies.  Even if the proper foundation was laid, the communist system would eventually collapse.  

I cite it only because there are certain surface similarities with Iraq and the Middle East as a whole.  In one sense we are attempting to “impose” a cultural/political system on the Middle East (i.e. Western-style democracy) without laying the proper groundwork (i.e. helping educate people and change the culture over time to understand, accept, and embrace these principles).  And, like Lenin, we are doing this out of expediency.  The liberal press would never allow the US to establish an authoritarian rule that gradually, over decades, gives way to a genuine democracy as the people are educated and prepared for it.  So in this sense the Leninist example applies.

But unlike communism, democracy is not inherently flawed.  Given the right conditions, democracy could take hold and prosper in the Middle East.  Expediency has forced the US government to impose democracy after removing Saddam.  If we walk away now --- literally or metaphorically --- the experiment will fail.  But if we continue to work with the country to educate its people about what democracy is, and isn’t, and help suppress anti-democratic forces (including religious fanatics), within a generation or two it could take hold strong enough to survive on its own.

So if we look at a 50 year timetable, I can see the strong possibility of success.  If we focus on the next few years or decade only, it’s a failure.

Circumstances, rather than a carefully pre-conceived plan, created the “opportunity” today to infuse democracy in the Middle East.  Either way, it’s there now, and that’s the new reality.  But like a new plant this fledgling democracy must be nurtured.  And part of this nurturing requires an aggressive effort to stop those forces inside and outside Iraq who wish to put an end to Iraqi democracy as it exists today, or simply bring misery to the West in general.

So it all comes down to how aggressive the West will continue to be in fighting Islamo fascism.  We’ll do it primarily to protect ourselves, but if we keep one eye on the fledgling Arab democracy we kick-started in Iraq, we can accomplish both objectives --- though not for another 50 years or so.

50 years is an eternity to the Western mind.  But we’re talking about a complete culture shift, which means a generation or two of education and change.  I reject the notion by some (not you) that Arabs are not capable of embracing democracy.  Russia today shows us what is possible, and what isn’t, in this regard.  They have the trappings of a real democracy without a lot of its important substance.  

But some of it is there, and growing however slowly.  As the Middle East develops a real middle class, which is one of the byproducts of capitalist democracy, those salutary “democratic” forces will be put in motion, and the culture will begin to change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David &#8211;</p>
<p>“Is democracy the answer to Islam?” I’m not sure whether I agree or disagree with you.  It depends on how you look at certain key issues.</p>
<p>Lenin “bypassed” the stages of capitalist development to impose Marxism on a largely agrarian society, and the experiment failed.  It failed for two reasons though.  First, it violated the theory that the proletariat must lead the way; therefore the cultural/social/political/economic conditions were not “right,” and the groundwork for a self-perpetuating “success” was not properly laid.  And, it failed because Marxism/communism is inherently flawed, and therefore was doomed to failure through its own inconsistencies.  Even if the proper foundation was laid, the communist system would eventually collapse.  </p>
<p>I cite it only because there are certain surface similarities with Iraq and the Middle East as a whole.  In one sense we are attempting to “impose” a cultural/political system on the Middle East (i.e. Western-style democracy) without laying the proper groundwork (i.e. helping educate people and change the culture over time to understand, accept, and embrace these principles).  And, like Lenin, we are doing this out of expediency.  The liberal press would never allow the US to establish an authoritarian rule that gradually, over decades, gives way to a genuine democracy as the people are educated and prepared for it.  So in this sense the Leninist example applies.</p>
<p>But unlike communism, democracy is not inherently flawed.  Given the right conditions, democracy could take hold and prosper in the Middle East.  Expediency has forced the US government to impose democracy after removing Saddam.  If we walk away now &#8212; literally or metaphorically &#8212; the experiment will fail.  But if we continue to work with the country to educate its people about what democracy is, and isn’t, and help suppress anti-democratic forces (including religious fanatics), within a generation or two it could take hold strong enough to survive on its own.</p>
<p>So if we look at a 50 year timetable, I can see the strong possibility of success.  If we focus on the next few years or decade only, it’s a failure.</p>
<p>Circumstances, rather than a carefully pre-conceived plan, created the “opportunity” today to infuse democracy in the Middle East.  Either way, it’s there now, and that’s the new reality.  But like a new plant this fledgling democracy must be nurtured.  And part of this nurturing requires an aggressive effort to stop those forces inside and outside Iraq who wish to put an end to Iraqi democracy as it exists today, or simply bring misery to the West in general.</p>
<p>So it all comes down to how aggressive the West will continue to be in fighting Islamo fascism.  We’ll do it primarily to protect ourselves, but if we keep one eye on the fledgling Arab democracy we kick-started in Iraq, we can accomplish both objectives &#8212; though not for another 50 years or so.</p>
<p>50 years is an eternity to the Western mind.  But we’re talking about a complete culture shift, which means a generation or two of education and change.  I reject the notion by some (not you) that Arabs are not capable of embracing democracy.  Russia today shows us what is possible, and what isn’t, in this regard.  They have the trappings of a real democracy without a lot of its important substance.  </p>
<p>But some of it is there, and growing however slowly.  As the Middle East develops a real middle class, which is one of the byproducts of capitalist democracy, those salutary “democratic” forces will be put in motion, and the culture will begin to change.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Mulligan</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/09/15/the-war-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-27619</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Mulligan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-war-strategy/#comment-27619</guid>
		<description>Excellent article. Unfortunately, we will never have a leader willing to devise and stick to a plan for total victory, because it would never fly with the majority of boneheaded Americans. This post-hippy generation of &quot;tolerance&quot; has no tolerance for a strategy that identifies any person or set of persons as &quot;enemies&quot;. We&#039;re just a little too PC these days to declare war on an entire &quot;people&quot; or an entire religion (unless, of course, it happens to be Christianity). If anything provides us with proof of this, it&#039;s that a mere 5 years after the tragedy of 9/11 America has already lost it&#039;s solidarity and is right back to the PC pandering that led to an atmosphere where such an attack became so easily possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article. Unfortunately, we will never have a leader willing to devise and stick to a plan for total victory, because it would never fly with the majority of boneheaded Americans. This post-hippy generation of &#8220;tolerance&#8221; has no tolerance for a strategy that identifies any person or set of persons as &#8220;enemies&#8221;. We&#8217;re just a little too PC these days to declare war on an entire &#8220;people&#8221; or an entire religion (unless, of course, it happens to be Christianity). If anything provides us with proof of this, it&#8217;s that a mere 5 years after the tragedy of 9/11 America has already lost it&#8217;s solidarity and is right back to the PC pandering that led to an atmosphere where such an attack became so easily possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/09/15/the-war-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-27536</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Sep 2006 09:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2006/the-war-strategy/#comment-27536</guid>
		<description>Very interesting and insightful essay.  I go to Michigan State University, in the James Madison Program.  It is a very challenging residential college devoted to political philosphy both in America and overseas.  We have adressed this issue on numerous fronts for the last three years of my college education.  I share your skeptism with reguard to a peaceful middle-east.  One optimistic point I would like to make is the fact that a modern liberal democracy revolves around capitalism, and the inequalities between people in society (some are smarter/more clever and better buisnessmen than others, making them more likley to succeed.  Human nature is going to cause Man to compare himself to others (from Rousseau).  Reguardless of prior religion, I would like to point out how living in a capitalistic economy, with the notion of basic human rights, and the false reality of equality, people are forced to believe in liberalism like a religion.  They must beleive in enlightened self-interest.  If they do not, then they will no be able to live a happy life, for they will see themselves and everyone else as immoral.  Liberalism and capitalism force people to look at their old religions not as mandatory rules, but as good guidelines.  I&#039;m confident that even though a Islamidc democracy may not match our democracy right away, but it will most definately awaken the liberalism spirit in islamic thinkers.  When you consider that, and the fact the American society influences the whole world, it is apparent to me that Islamic extremist will slowly but surely die out.  It took the US 200 years to get here, and we definately had a head start branching off of Great Britian.  
Lets see where science/philosophy takes all of us!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting and insightful essay.  I go to Michigan State University, in the James Madison Program.  It is a very challenging residential college devoted to political philosphy both in America and overseas.  We have adressed this issue on numerous fronts for the last three years of my college education.  I share your skeptism with reguard to a peaceful middle-east.  One optimistic point I would like to make is the fact that a modern liberal democracy revolves around capitalism, and the inequalities between people in society (some are smarter/more clever and better buisnessmen than others, making them more likley to succeed.  Human nature is going to cause Man to compare himself to others (from Rousseau).  Reguardless of prior religion, I would like to point out how living in a capitalistic economy, with the notion of basic human rights, and the false reality of equality, people are forced to believe in liberalism like a religion.  They must beleive in enlightened self-interest.  If they do not, then they will no be able to live a happy life, for they will see themselves and everyone else as immoral.  Liberalism and capitalism force people to look at their old religions not as mandatory rules, but as good guidelines.  I&#8217;m confident that even though a Islamidc democracy may not match our democracy right away, but it will most definately awaken the liberalism spirit in islamic thinkers.  When you consider that, and the fact the American society influences the whole world, it is apparent to me that Islamic extremist will slowly but surely die out.  It took the US 200 years to get here, and we definately had a head start branching off of Great Britian.<br />
Lets see where science/philosophy takes all of us!</p>
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