Payday loans
Cialis
Car insurance

Why I think some liberals, fewer conservatives and most Muslims are pathological

In almost any “faith group” there are beliefs that are irrational and will not stand up to logical examination. 

Personality Disorders and True Believers

My purpose here is not to persuade or debate, but to make clear my own thinking on this subject.  The very nature of the pathology I write about precludes listening to opposing views or being rational.  Another name for the pathology I describe is “true believer.”

For a philosophical perspective on group pathology, please familiarize your self with Eric Hoffer and his book The True Believer. If you have any familiarity with the story of Jim Jones and his Jonestown Kool-Aid mass suicide, or of the group suicide of the members of the cult who found new meaning in the passage of the Hale Bop comet, or of the mental make-up of those who bought into the seven seals dogma of David Koresh in the fatal Waco fiasco, then you will recognize that which Hoffer describes. Read this book for further insight into the fanaticism of the holy warriors of Islam, and perhaps it will steel your resolve for the long struggle.

I hop around the internet forums quite a bit.  In fact I have taken to deliberately provoking debates and keeping track of the irrational responses, personal attacks, ad hominem arguments, logical absurdities, hyperbole, extreme examples (would everybody please quit comparing your favorite villain to Hitler), and hard-headed, narrow-mindedness in general.

I have been collecting on-line responses to illustrate the premise that members of “movements” have certain predictable responses to information that contradicts their “faith” or “party line.”  In almost any “faith group” there are beliefs that are irrational and will not stand up to logical examination.  It is amazing how  political parties, special interest groups, advocacy groups, religions, doctors, nationalists, philosophical schools of thought, and even scientists, are so narrow-minded about information that contradicts their particular paradigm. 

If you want to see this kind of pathology rear up in front of your own eyes, try some of the following experiments:

1.  With black forums: present conclusive historical documentation that the American slave trade depended on Black African chieftains who either sold their own tribe members into slavery or captured other tribe members and sold them as slaves.

2.  With fundamentalist Christians: present solid evidence that the Bible is not literally true.

3.  With the NRA members: present several of the solid studies which support the premise that having a gun in the house is more dangerous than remaining unarmed.

4.  With law enforcement officers and law and order advocates: present many studies which reveal that almost any alternative sentencing program results in less recidivism than imprisonment or punishment.

5.  With MDs: present very well researched studies which show that orthomolecular medicine achieves superior results over traditional medical treatments in several areas of pathology.

6.  With mathematicians: present evidence that math is not really connected to reality in a predictable way, but functions as a kind of “virtual reality.” “As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.” (Albert Einstein)

7.  With homosexuals: present evidence that “gayness” is not genetic and that Dean Hamer, a homosexual and molecular biologist, is under investigation by the federal Office of Research Integrity for fraud connected with his highly touted “gay gene” study.

8.  With feminists: present over 100 social science research studies on domestic violence showing that women are at least as violent, if not more violent, than men in domestic settings.

9.  With Republicans: talk about the very real accomplishments of the Clinton administration.

10. With Democrats: point out that it was the Republican policy and Republican leadership that won the old War.

In our little informal study we check for 10 standard responses and rank the willingness to accept conflicting information accordingly. 

Typically, people have very low evidence standards for accepting the validity of things with which they agree, and very high evidence standards for accepting things with which they disagree.  An example: Feminists seem perfectly willing to accept law enforcement statistics as an accurate description of the domestic violence problem (low standards for accepting).   Scientific studies are far more reliable in presenting an accurate view of the problem.  However, the scientific studies clearly show that domestic violence is a two-way street.  Therefore, feminists clutch onto misleading Justice Department statistics with the same obsession that Silas Marner clings to his gold, while at the same time denying the validity of statistical evidence with the same narrow-minded belligerence of a fundamentalist who is confronted with evolutionary science (high standards for accepting). 

Another example of narrow-mindedness is a comparison of scientific thinking skills between a group of PhD scientists and a group of Protestant Ministers.  These men were advised that “science” had already determined the “four correct” (there were actually more than four) solutions to a given problem.  Both groups were given an ample amount of time to construct rules governing the behavior of certain variables.  The Ministers conducted three times as many experiments before they offered an answer. The ministers were only half as likely to return an answer that had already been disproved.  The ministers were three times slower in venturing to offer their first hypothesis.  The ministers found twice as many acceptable solutions to the problem as the scientists.  In other words, the Ministers were far more “scientific” in their thinking than the PhD scientists.  It seems the scientists were more indoctrinated with their brand of dogma than the ministers.

The American public is beset by a plethora of irrational delusions which are widely believed.  There is a very serious problem in this country with “advocacy research” and “True Believers.”  The public needs to be educated to know that fanaticism and propaganda is all around us, and it is very dangerous.

To date the most pathological group I have yet discovered is a web site called Democratic Underground.

I see modern liberals as far more influenced by “true believer” type pathologies than traditional Democrats and conservatives.

Now on to the pathology of some liberals.

There is much discussion by political sages of the Right about the roots of liberalism being entwined with human weakness and pathology.

Some of the issues being raised are:

1.  Guilt and self-loathing are woven into liberal philosophy and policy.

2.  Dependant personality types are drawn to liberalism.

3.  Marginalized groups and dysfunctional individuals are drawn to liberalism.

4.  Histrionic personality types are drawn to liberalism.

5.  Liberal values discourage people from acting in their own self-interest.

6.  Liberals think of themselves as intellectually and ethically superior to conservatives.

These are just a few of the indicators of “character disorders” seen in liberal thinking, feeling, and behaving.  It is fascinating to me to look at “collective personality traits” and then diagnose them as if they were individuals.  Buy yourself a DSM-IV (Diagnostic Service Manual) and have some fun.  Another excellent book on pathological personality traits is New Personality Self-Portrait by John Oldham, M.D., who wrote the Personality Disorder section of the DSM-IV.

Personality disorders are different from other mental health problems.  Personality disorders are extreme examples of traits we all have.  For instance, if I carefully planned every detail of a trip I was taking and packed my suitcase in an orderly and through manner, I would just be a conscientious person.  If I took so much time planning and packing that I missed my plane, I would be diagnosed as having obsessive/compulsive disorder.

Those drawn to definable political philosophies might also exhibit personality traits that become so extreme they could be called pathologies

In general the Liberals would represent the “weak” disorders.  Liberals may be dependant, self-defeating, avoidant or passive-aggressive.

For those of you who care to further familiarize yourself with the “weak” disorders that characterize liberal pathologies, here are the names and a link for more information:

Dependent Personality Disorder – http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe09.html

Self Defeating Personality Disorder – http://www.psychnet-uk.com/clinical_psychology/criteria_personality_masochistic.htm

Avoidant Personality Disorder – http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe08.html

Passive Aggressive Personality Disorder – http://www.ptypes.com/passive-aggpd.html

One of the significant indicators of pathology of personality is an inability to act in one’s own self-interest.  This also has to do with self-loathing.  You can see this manifested in liberal “hate.”  A good example is the Left’s attitude toward President Bush.  It seems to me that if one hates with that much venom one must have self-hatred first.  I may not be fond of the likes of Michael Moore or John Kerry, but I sure can't be bothered working up the energy to hate them like liberals hate “W.”

Many liberals seem to be unable to act in a clear path of self-interest, even the interest of their own country.  Guilt contains some of the main elements of the "liberal" self-loathing. I have had many clients raised in an atmosphere heavy on guilt; they had tremendous amounts of fear (fear of failing, fear of being found wanting, etc.), always a sort of low-level, non-specific sense of guilt. These are the perfect specimens to become card-carrying "liberals."  I should feel guilty because there are others in need, I should feel guilty because my country is so much more prosperous than anyone else's, I should feel guilty because my army can beat up their army, etc. (The CIA sucks, we are stupid, we are evil, we are greedy.)

The liberals are a good example of insular thinking.  They reinforce each other constantly, and instantly crush any idea competing with their “party line.”  All “movements” do this, including the extreme right wing.  This is another symptom of the “True Believers” pathology.  This is one of the things that make political groups so dangerous.  “All movements go too far.” (Bertrand Russell)  There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Now for the pathology of conservatives

Conservatives would represent the “strong” disorders. Conservatives may be paranoid, anti-social, narcissistic or sadistic. For those of you who care to further familiarize yourself with the “strong” disorders that characterize conservative pathologies, here are the names and a link for more information:

Paranoid Personality Disorder – http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe01.html

Anti-social Personality Disorder – http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe04.html

Narcissistic Personality Disorder – http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html

Sadistic Personality Disorder – http://www.ptypes.com/sadisticpd.html

Please keep in mind that these diagnostic criteria represent the extreme ends of the spectrum for both liberal and conservative pathologies.  Also, it is important to remember that these two types of pathologies represent the opposite ends of the spectrum, one being “weak” and the other being “strong.”

One way of illustrating these opposite natures is to compare attitudes toward national defense as expressed by two very different leaders. George McGovern, ultra–liberal, failed Presidential candidate, when asked in 1972 how he would get our POWs back after withdrawing our troops, replied, "I would go to Hanoi on my knees."  Compare that to General Curtis LeMay, whose critics have characterized as a belligerent warmonger (even nicknaming him "Bombs Away LeMay").   General LeMay was the cold warrior who was portrayed in the satirical film Dr. Strangelove in the dual roles as the trigger-happy General Jack D. Ripper, played by Sterling Hayden, and Gen. 'Buck' Turgidson played by George C. Scott, who also played another “strong” man, General George Patton.  General LeMay is credited with coining the phrase “Nuke ‘em ‘til they glow.”

All these conditions for extreme liberals and conservatives have specific definitions in the DSM-IV and usually occur in clusters; if you have one you probably have several.  Most, if not all of them, are available on the internet, so please don’t start making comments or disagreeing with me until you familiarize yourself with the actual diagnostic regimen.

It is important to remember that we all have traits that tend toward disorders.  It is only when the traits become extreme that it is accurate to think of them as pathologies.  Without being so technical, most of us can discern the difference between an ordinary liberal and an extreme liberal. This is likewise true for conservatives. 

However, I will dare to conclude that liberals in general will err on the side of weakness, and conservatives will err on the side of strength.

Pathological Islam

No matter how pathological American liberals and conservatives become, I doubt they will ever be as dangerous to mankind as the radical Islamic sect. I believe that the majority expression of today’s Islam is pathological.  There are also notable and noble exceptions to that majority.  Muslims are people.  Islam is a multifaceted thought paradigm. Individual Muslim people exposed to the larger religious pathology are not all going to get sick, any more than everyone in an epidemic dies.  In fact, one of the most important fields of research in epidemiology, the study of disease, is to study those who do not get sick when exposed.  Maybe there is a clue there for us in dealing with Islam.

Next, it isn’t just Islam.  Those of us who study religion as a sociological phenomenon see religions as divided into different categories than do the practitioners of religion.  For instance, Confucianism and Judaism are both “wisdom” religions.  Old Testament Judaism was a ritualistic/legalistic religion.  When the temple was destroyed, it was impossible to observe temple rituals, so ritualistic Judaism morphed into a wisdom religion.  Today’s leaders of Judaism have the title Rabbi, “teacher” rather than “priest.”

“Fundamentalism” is a specific sect that shows up from time to time in all the major religions. 

The main characteristics of fundamentalism are:

1.  Selective/Narrow – Fundamentalist religions are very selective about what they embrace and accept from the mainstream of their religion.  Christian fundamentalists are ignorant of most Christian tradition, and are very selective about which scriptures they read or quote.  Trained theologians call this “proof-texting,” meaning they find a text to “prove” what they already believe.  Non-fundamentalist Christians use a different yardstick for scriptural interpretation.  Intellectually-honest Christians will ask, “What is the full testimony of the scriptures?” What is the message of the entire body of scripture verses relevant to a particular subject?  Islamic fundamentalists ignore classical Islam and the traditions of Islam.  They focus on those passages in the Koran that talk about infidels,and ignore the passages about compassion.

2.  Static/Entropic – Fundamentalist religions are very reactive to change.  They want things to stay the same.  They fear modernity and they cannot be comfortable with ambiguity.  They must slow the world down and simplify thinking to the point where it will fit on a bumper sticker.  Fundamentalists are not sophisticated thinkers.  They have primal anxiety reactions to change and to complicated, uncertain thinking.  By contrast, Paul Tillich, the preeminent protestant theologian of the twentieth century, became known as the ‘Apostle to the Intellectuals’ because his intellectual quest was to communicate the Christian faith to humanistically educated skeptics. To quote Paul Tillich, “Doubt is not the antithesis of faith.  Doubt is an essential element of faith.  Without doubt there is no faith, there is only dogma.”  That describes a living faith, and is the opposite of an entropic religion.

3.  Supramoral/Anti-social – This is the aspect of fundamentalism that is criminal and psychotic.  The fundamentalist Christian who decides his “morality” is so important and right that it is ok to kill abortion doctors is close kin to the guys who flew airliners into the WTC.  Entropy is just another name for death.  Fundamentalists are anti-life.  Wait, you say, fundamentalists are opposed to abortion.  Yes, but they are praying for the end of time when all mankind will die and a select few will become spiritual beings, very similar to Islamic fundamentalists.  This anti-materialism is a left-over heresy from the early church.  Mainstream Christians are more likely to say, “It is more important to be loving than it is to be right.”  Maybe they would say, “People are more important than ideas.”

So here is the gist of my thinking. Islam is a “Poster Child” for a desperately-needed, twelve-step program called “Fundamentalists Anonymous.”  The big problem is that Islam is about one thousand years behind the development of other world religions.  Hundreds of years ago Christians were doing the same things that Islam is doing now. When any selective/narrow, static/entropic, supramoral/anti-social group is so sure that their idea is so important that they are willing to kill everybody who does not agree, they are of mortal danger to our planet. The Islam of today is dangerously fundamentalist. Most people do not understand the high degree of danger the world is exposed to by Islam. 

When the practitioners of Islam start cleaning up their own religion, I will believe that Islam has turned the corner and is reversing its destructive trend toward pathology.

That is a perfect segue to my next major point.  I find it predictable that Dr. Wafa Sultan, a psychiatrist from the Middle East, would accurately see the symptoms of a sick Islamic religion. 

Keep in mind that a diagnosis does not require that the person be completely sick.  When it comes to individual humans, they only need to be “significantly” dysfunctional to accurately be assigned a diagnostic code.  “The murderer, when he is not a murdering, walks through the meadow with his daughter and picks flowers for her.”  Hitler was kind to his dogs.  What?  Am I supposed to believe that Hamas is moral because they do charity work?  As I understand it, Ted Bundy was charming, socially appropriate, and had many friends.

So, we do not need to decide that all Islam is sick.  We need to determine if Islam is significantly dysfunctional.  My definitive diagnosis is:  Islam is significantly dysfunctional to an extreme degree and is a danger to all mankind. 

My next door neighbor who lives in this “up-scale” neighborhood was stabbed in the stomach and his wife was slashed in the breast by a person with the same mind set as fundamentalism.  “Whatever I want is more important than you and yours.”  How would you respond to a psychotic invading your bedroom? 

I wish I could remember the spiritual teacher’s name who, after a long sermon on non-violence and peace, was asked how he would respond to a robber in his home.  He responded, “I would beat the crap out of him and call 911. If that didn’t work I would kill him, if I could.” 

Well said!  I suggest the same policy toward Islamic fundamentalism, before it is too late.

Share

9 comments to Why I think some liberals, fewer conservatives and most Muslims are pathological

  • I’d just like to hit on a couple of your points here and the reactions to them. In some cases I’m going to actually defend points I disbelieve in to show you why your case is weak.

    1. With black forums: present conclusive historical documentation that the American slave trade depended on Black African chieftains who either sold their own tribe members into slavery or captured other tribe members and sold them as slaves.

    This is nothing new to black people. Most of them learn this in school. The reaction you got was most likely due to a perceived mitigation of the role of the white man. In terms of degree, the African tribeman just sold them into slavery…the white man held the slaves for generations. It’s much easier to put the lionshare of the responsibility on the white man.

    2. With fundamentalist Christians: present solid evidence that the Bible is not literally true.

    When most of this evidence is put forward, it’s something along the lines of “The world’s not 6000 years old you know!” Of course it’s not. Nor is there anything in the Bible to suggest it is.
    It would’ve been nice to put some of your proof down here.

    3. With the NRA members: present several of the solid studies which support the premise that having a gun in the house is more dangerous than remaining unarmed.

    Yea, I’m sorry, I disagree with the NRA ALOT, but for the most part they are highly educated people, especially when it comes to guns. Most of the studies on “being safer without a gun” were thoroughly debunked. An NRA member would’ve quickly pointed out that gun accidents lead to less deaths than car crashes or accidental drownings, for children. Or that in states where there are conceal and carry laws, crime drops after their implimentation. There are so many factual ways to respond, and I doubt the NRA responded like wild hyenas. At the least, they’ve grown tired of repeating themselves and just told you matter-of-factly that those studies have been disproved.

    4. With law enforcement officers and law and order advocates: present many studies which reveal that almost any alternative sentencing program results in less recidivism than imprisonment or punishment.

    This is ridiculous. Number one, violent offenders are put in jail to keep them away from the general public. With those who are incarcerated for life, there is a zero recidivism rate. Second, even programs like scared straight (which show children the joys of prison rape and shanking) fail in deterring some of the more seasoned criminal youths. With sociopaths especially, no other form of alternative sentencing program has ever been found remotely successful.
    While there are successful youth programs, and some crimes do not warrent prison, there is no rehabilitation for a guy who brutally murders his wife and children because she didn’t cook eggs right in the morning. In some cases alternative sentencing (like community service) works, in other cases it doesn’t.

    7. With homosexuals: present evidence that “gayness” is not genetic and that Dean Hamer, a homosexual and molecular biologist, is under investigation by the federal Office of Research Integrity for fraud connected with his highly touted “gay gene” study.

    That someone faked the “gay gene” study is nothing new or controversial.
    But even if it’s not genetic, there is evidence that it’s beyond their control. Studies have shown that different levels of hormones in the body before birth can drastically change the baby’s development. While advocates for both sides like to state for a fact what causes gayness…no one knows, and until we get off this PC crap, we won’t ever find out.

    9. With Republicans: talk about the very real accomplishments of the Clinton administration.

    Most of those “very real accomplishments” like welfare control, happened with a Republican Congress. In fact, as Congress is just as responsible for what happens in the US as is the President (if not more so), it’s hard to look at anything during the 6 years of Clinton and the Republican congress and definitively say, yea, that was Clinton.
    And even past that, most Republicans would point out that the man’s criminal behavior, failed programs and refusal to kill Osama more than outweigh any good he might have done.

    Honestly, I wish you’d have posted some of the “evidence” you put forward to the various groups, and their responses. I know nothing about the medical field, but I find it exceptionally hard to believe that MDs, without a shred of evidence, argued you up and down on a field of their specialty. I also find it hard to believe that the NRA wouldn’t provide you with counter facts, right or wrong, to defend their position. Same with law enforcement.

  • vinny

    I certainly agree with you regarding your point that some who want to “prove” their
    belief, understanding, or ideology employ questionable methods, ie. substandard rules of evidence. I am guilty myself of this sometimes. I don’t disagree with you in general but i disagree with what is implied, I believe, in your following statement;

    “Hundreds of years ago Christians were doing the same things that Islam is doing now”

    I agree that Christians were killing Christians over doctrinal differences, as Muslims are and have been doing, but I don’t remember Christians spreading their beliefs to other non-Christians through some sort of Christian “jihad”(convert, submit, or die). If I am correct, it was through the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ that converted the Gentile world to Christianity. There may have been lapses in this Christian practice but it certainly is not it’s nature. The practice of spreading Islam has always been by war and conquest by the sword. This is not a mere lapse in Muslim practice, this is fundamentally the Muslim practice of converting the non-Muslim believer.
    What has to be guarded against in these discussions of religion ( and I believe Atheism is a religion) is the denigration, blurring, and ignorance of the fundamental differences between these particular religions. In other words, the belief and thought that there can be no meaningful judgments and discussions of the differences between particular religions because in the end “they all did bad things”. I think the more serious discussion is if the particular undesirable practice of the Religion is fundamental to the nature of that Religion.
    In order to stop Jihadism you would either have to stop or inhibit the practice of
    Islam by force (war or law) or to convert them to another religion like Christianity by the Christian practice of preaching the gospel to them. Islamic belief and practice is fundamentally incompatible with the belief and practice of Western civilization (Hebraic-Christian-Greek thought). Believing that Islam has or will “catch up” with Western civilization is in my honest opinion a false hope. Islam is not based on the foundations of Western civilization. Either they lose or we lose, it is that simple, just like Totalitarianism (Communism) was incompatible with the Free World (Americanism?), so is Islam.
    Maybe, I am just acting like a True Believer. What do you think?

  • Friend of USA

    The more I read about Islam, the more I agree with people like Vinny;

    Islam is incompatible with the modern world.

    Just one example of something somewhat benign but that says a lot about Islam;
    When your religion forbids you to carry blind people in your taxi cab because their seeing dog is considered ” impure”
    your religion is incompatible with most cultures.

    When your religion says that your primitive beliefs are more important than the needs of a blind person, your religion is more than incompatible, it is bad.

    When your religion not only tells you to be intolerant of anyone or anything but to constanty demand more and more from those who are different,
    when your religion teaches you that you should make ” infidel” subserviant if you cannot convert them, then your religion is really bad.

    Islam has been the way it is now from the first day it was created.

    Anything wrong with Islam has been present from day one.

    There is no comparison with Christianity.

    One religion did its mea culpa, and the other firmly denies ever having been violent.
    Historical facts cannot even be mentioned, Muslims will violently set everything on fire to convince us that they never had a violent past and that nothing about them is violent.
    And if we don’t say we are sorry for daring accusing them of having violent tendencies, they treathen us with more violence.

    Correct me if I’m wrong but the only time a Catholic Pope sent people fighting was to retake lands that the Muslims had invaded;

    It was self defense, Islam had invaded most of Europe.

    It was either fight or submit to Islam.

    Don’t let leftists re-write history to appease the Muslims.

  • Patrick Mulligan

    Vinny,

    Very well said. I was going to post something similar, but you’ve articulated it very well.

    Going by the definition of “fundamentalist” outlined here, the only person who can honestly claim not to be a fundamentalist is the person devoid of convictions of any kind on any subject. So in reality, only the dead. If a fundamentalist is a person who lays claim to “right and wrong”, then even science is fundamentalism, and is insufficient in and of itself to “prove” anything. In fact, there can be no “proof” of anything, because using this definition, all is relative. If I am a Muslim and I believe that all infidels should be killed or live as second class citizens in a united Muslim world-state then I am no more or less right or wrong than a Christian who believes that Jesus is returning to redeem mankind, because we both BELIEVE we are right. No one belief is any better or any more correct than another, so each deserves equal respect. So since Hitler believed he was doing the “right” thing, he is no better or worse than Jesus Christ since he also believe he was doing the “right” thing. How can we prove that one idea is better than another? Science itself is relative because it makes claims of what is “right” and “wrong”, correct or incorrect, so we can’t use that as a yardstick by which to measure ideas even if it was capable of such. After all, a “legitimate” scientist who believes that the world is spherical is no more or less “right” than a scientist who believes that the world is flat. Each one believes he is right, and so he is from his own reference point. Since each individual has a different reference point, each can be correct in his own reference point, and nothing is correct or “right” universally. Murder is only wrong if you believe it to be so. If you believe murder is right, you are equally as correct in that belief as the person who believes it is wrong. So neither party is correct or incorrect, and each should live according to his belief. Since there is no truth, at least no universal truth that is always true in every frame of reference, there should be nothing to prevent each person from living according his beliefs, including government. Unless of course a certain group of people believe in governments, but their beliefs shouldn’t have to be shared universally, because no belief is universal. If my neighbor believes in government, but I don’t, my neighbor should submit to the government he believes in, but the same government should have no authority over me, because I don’t believe in it. And the same for all supposed “laws” and “truths” that are supposed to be universal, including God and science. All is clear now! Because all is true, and all is untrue. Bravo! Your wisdom has enlightened me.

    Give me a break. Seriously, does it make you feel better about yourself to engage in this kind of intellectual self-gratification? Is it an ego boost for you? Is that why you also have to pretentiously talk down to your reader as if you were Isaac Newton lecturing a class of 8 year olds? You’ve impressed us, okay? We all understand that you took philosophy and theology classes. Your intellect outshines Aristotle, Jesus Christ and the prophet Muhammad combined. Here’s your cookie. I can understand how you’d be very well received in a blimp-head group like Mensa, but who on earth ordained you a minister with any religious sect with your idea of moral and idealogical relativism?

  • Leigh

    “but I don’t remember Christians spreading their beliefs to other non-Christians through some sort of Christian “jihad”(convert, submit, or die). ”

    Conquest of the New World. The Spanish were particularly ruthless with pagans as the Aztecs found out. The colonials in Africa were also had sme nasty examples. Ironic now that Africa is exporting missionaries back to Europe.

    “The practice of spreading Islam has always been by war and conquest by the sword.”

    Indonesia. Largest muslim country in the world. Islam was spread there by sufi traders, hence why they don’t hold in high regard the austere interpretations that came Wahabi and Deobandi…

    “Islamic belief and practice is fundamentally incompatible with the belief and practice of Western civilization ”

    I may be biased because I spend a lot of time in Malaysia and Indonesia, however you have such a limited world. You are just as blinkered as the other side.

    Riddle me this, are Mormons representative of Christianity? Are they Christians? Some say yes, some say no. How would you take it if a hindu, muslim, sikh decided to choose Mormons and their history as representative as Christianity?

  • Patrick Mulligan

    “Riddle me this, are Mormons representative of Christianity? Are they Christians? Some say yes, some say no. How would you take it if a hindu, muslim, sikh decided to choose Mormons and their history as representative as Christianity?”

    Riddle Me This. Do Mormons use the same doctrines and documents as Christianity? Some can say whatever they like, the answer is no. They have a whole separate set of literature that they use in addition to the Christian Bible that determines the basic precepts of their faith. Do Muslims not all believe in the same book? Do they not all take divine instruction from the same Koran? And does not that Koran say, in every interpretation, in every language, in every sect, that infidels should be converted, subjugated or killed? Riddle me this as well, was the conquest of the New World performed in the name of a religion? As I recall, they mostly stuck national flags in the ground when new land was conquered, not crucifixes. As I recall, it was largely commercial and political gain that motivated nations to develop new world colonies, not religion. And as I recall, the Christian Bible does not say anywhere in its pages that pagans must either be converted, subjugated or killed, so even if the New World was conquered in the name of Christianity (which it most certainly was not), you couldn’t make a justification for it based on the Christian Bible. It’s too bad you live in such a broad, broad world, because in doing so, you seem to have simply gotten bits and pieces of culture and religion from each one without fully understanding any of them.

  • Mike Brown

    The debate started above will not end soon and my comments will certainly not end it. However, I ask that you consider this:

    We tend to confuse faith in the Bible or faith in the Qur’an, Sunnau of the Prhphet and the Hadith with the way human kind implement it. Clearly, a Christian who is intolerant and spreads his faith by violence is not being consistent with the teachings of Christ. On the other hand, a Muslim who is tolerant and unwilling to spread his faith by violence is not being consistent with Islamic writings.

    “They [Christian fundamentalists] focus on those passages in the Koran that talk about infidels, and ignore the passages about compassion.” If the author of the essay could please help me out by pointing to those passages in the Qur’an, Sunnau of the Prophet or Hadith which call for compassion for anyone other than other non-infidels or tax paying infidels, I would appreciate it.

  • Protestant

    Interesting read. It is always good to find some who see that those who reject truth have a serious difficulty in life. I would like to comment on this statement: “The big problem is that Islam is about one thousand years behind the development of other world religions. Hundreds of years ago Christians were doing the same things that Islam is doing now.”

    Those in Islam who take to heart what they have been given by their “prophet” react in different ways. Some are fully persuaded and act out their beliefs. Others, sit back and watch. While it is true that religions change over time, all false religion remain false and sadly all true religious movements have not evolved, but rather denied their beginnings and have become false. All except mine.

    I can say this because where I am now is not due to my genes nor my parental training in religion. No, my search for truth led me to where I am today. Islam will never accept the truth any more than other false religions. The truth preceeds all modern religious movements. Only a conservative approach to religion will lead one to the truth. Modern interpretation of Scripture is liberal and does not lead to the truth. The Bible, both Old and New Testament contain the truth. As man continues his downward slide, rather than trust in God’s Word, as did Luther, he attempts to use human wisdom to transform his religion to suit his fallen nature.

    Thus, what we see today with the multitude of “modern” Christian denominations is a wide divergence from conservative American values. Yes, what may appear to be a modern advance in Protestantism is no more than your typical liberalism. You will see a decided agreement between modern liberalism as espoused by the Democratic Party and the modern version of Protestantism. And, where you don’t see this outward appearance in some denominations, look beyond their profession to see their deeds. Examine their divorce rate and you will see that they equal what is in the liberal world. And, if you are not convinced with this stat, look at the rate of child molestation in that church. Sad, but this is what most churches have become. They are not bastions of conservatism as they think….and the world sees it. The world calls it hypocrisy.

Leave a Reply

Articles Archived by Topic