I noticed that you’re using the Jewish typographical convention of leaving the vowel out of the word, “G-d”. That convention was developed because it’s a pain to dispose of a book that actually has the Name printed in it somewhere; you can’t burn the book, you have to bury it with appropriate prayers and incantations.

So my question is, when you delete a document with the Name in it, can you use the Trashcan icon, or do you have to invoke an appropriately-named bit scrambler?

You are a rare person indeed if you are taking exception to the Muslim fundamentalists, for very seldom does a Muslim criticize the extremist elements of Islam. The silence is deafening.

A recent pole of young Muslims (American, I think) indicated that something like 25 percent of them believed that killing in the name of Islam was acceptable in some circumstances. Anyone, whether in or outside of the faith, is violently condemned for dishonoring Mohammed (Danish cartoons, anyone?).

One can hope that cooler heads will prevail amongst Muslims, but I have yet to see any cooler heads at all. Are you the first?

At no point (niether did I have the intention) of pretending that you are all “dumb rubes who are too bigoted to see the truth”.
I really do not know where you got that idea from?

Rather than address both of your points (Patrick and WolvenBear), it is probably easier to explain where I am coming from (and less likely to be interpreted as an attack or apologetic – I hope).

I believe that God gave us a brain and the ability to think and choose between Good and Evil. The Quran is open to criticism and welcomes adherents to think through the issues raised (although you may disagree). There are many schools of thought that exist within Islam, many of which are ignored or not heard of in the West. They embrace a wide range of interpretations of the Quran seeking guidance from the Hadith (which alone is subject to many interpretations).

I have a strong dislike of ideologies (I use that word specifically) that seek to limit my ability to think. I am not a sheep to be led blindly (a possible arrogance on mybehalf, but then I am not perfect). I believe that Islam (you can substitute others if you wish) is of the heart. God can see if you are true and not merely paying lip service.

It is why I have a strong dislike of Salafism (Wahabism being regarding as a derogatory form, although it is good to get a rise out of some people). Salafists are rulebound and more interested in conformism than following the heart. This is aptly illustrated by the actions of so called Religious/Morality Police in Saudi Arabia – a contradiction in terms if there ever was one. Salafism is not Islam. It is a rigid austere narrow interpretation backed up by oil money to support a corrupt family that holds custodianship over Islam’s Holy sites. Does that leave any ambiguity where I stand?

The other form of Islam which has a vocal (toxic would be more accurate) presence on the world stage is that of Shia Iran. The viewpoint that was pushed during the revolution by Ayotallah Khomeini was a minority one. Many scholars within Shia Islam opposed it and still oppose it now. Unfortunately, the current leadership control the money and means of force. Dissenters are placed under house arrest (for the highly regarded scholars) or far far worse. That is not Islam. That is why Iran is such a mess dispite the efforts of Iran to portray otherwise.

Please do not expect me to refute or justify every argument. I can not. I have my own views which at times are at odds with publically self proclaimed spokesmen of Islam. I lead my life the best I can as do many others.

While I have no doubt that you are a wonderful person, the fact that you don’t believe in killing gays (or that you’ve never met anyone who wants to) in no way addresses the matter of the hundreds of thousands of your co-religionists across the planet who do. In every Muslim country that imposes Sharia, all of them adhere to the lovliness that Patrick Mulligan mentioned and more: such as death for apostates, the subjugation of women, and the imposition of dhimmitude on different religions. In the West, the best estimates we have for those of the faith of Islam who believe in violence to innocents is 10% (some places in the West are much higher…and the Middle East shoots through the roof). Lost in this is what these people classify as “innocence”…as a famous British imam was quite upfront and honest in saying that only Muslims could be “innocent”. And since no one’s ever asked how many Muslims believe in adopting Sharia…though every Muslim group I’ve ever heard of pushes for it.

And when a “moderate” Muslim group steps forward to “address concerns”, their only real goal is to shout down “Islamophobes”.

Far from being a mischaracterization, PM’s description hits the nail on the head, and you’re not going to win any friends by pretending that we’re all dumb rubes who are too bigoted to see the truth.

Here’s the difference: There is nothing in Christianity that instructs the adherents of the religion to do any of the things I mentioned about Muslims. However, your holy doctrinal book, the Qur’an, does indeed have passages that instruct “fundamentalists” or “true believers” to do those things. That you don’t do those things makes you a “bad” Muslim. I am not stereotyping anything or anyone. Go to one of your places of worship and ask one of your religious teachers to clarify those issues for you. If the teacher is a true, or “fundamentalist” Muslim, that is, a true believer who takes what he perceives as the instructions from his God seriously, he will corroborate all of that information for you. When all those “radical” Muslims say they want a worldwide caliphate under strict Shari’a law, they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do according to their religion. My point was: a group of radical, or “fundamentalist” Christians has no basis in their religious literature to harm anyone, or impose themselves on anyone, or coerce anyone, or anything of the sort. No matter how literally or how “radically” you practice the doctrines of Christianity, what’s the worst that can happen? You forgive people too many times? Pray too much? There is nothing in Christian literature that instructs adherents to bomb abortion clinics, or force religious conversion on others, or overthrow the government, or any of the other stereotypical things that this article highlighted. That’s the principal difference between Islam and Christianity that I am laboring to highlight here. “Moderate” Muslims, like yourself, who believe that women should be allowed to vote and seek education, that there can be a separation of government and religion, etc, are not fully practicing the written commandments of their faith. Christians who would fit the profile of the stereotypical “fundamentalist”, as caricatured in the article (violent, imposing, bombing abortion clinics, etc), wouldn’t be practicing Christianity as it is outlined in Christian doctrinal literature. Which is why “fundamentalist” would be a humorously inappropriate title: none of those things are taught at all in Christian literature, let alone are they “foundational” to the faith! You seem to have completely misunderstood. I was not complaining about “labeling” or “stereotyping”. I was saying: What would be so bad about a true Christian fundamentalist anyhow?

However, the response from Patick Mulligan also produced a smile, albeit one of sadness. You are using the same reasoning to lable Muslims as the left does to lable Christians in the US.

A fundamentalist is someone who believes in the fundamentals of their religion. If they do not believe in the fundamentals, are they truely being honest with themselves about being a good ?

This may make me a target so to speak of some of the more outspoken members on this board, however as the author mentioned they are Jewish, although not a particularly good one, I am a Muslim, although not a particularly good one.

I am British (would prefer English, however I have Scots blood from my mothers side) who lives in mainland Europe. I have friends who span the spectrum of devout practicing Christians, Jews and Muslims, left and right, nationalist and internationalist, poor and wealthy.

Despite spending time in Egypt and Indonesia (both Muslim countries of a very different character), I have not come across people who believe gays should be killed, women should not be allowed to vote or go to school, people of different religions should be subjugated or killed, and that there should be no separation between state and religion.

Is it honest to complain about being labeled with a stereotype, yet forcing another stereotype on another group?

Excellent presentation. The issues you bring up are certainly obfuscated in the MSM, but you bring some clarity.

Caricatures and stereotypes are anti-intellectual crutches often used by the political left. Such things save a lot of time and effort that would otherwise be spent actually engaging the issues.

For them, the AGENDA takes precedence over everything. Logic, truth, dialogue, even rationality, take a back seat. That’s why it’s so hard to have a conversation with leftists.

Most ironically, the same left-wing fanatics who decry Christian “fundamentalists” are going out of their way to accommodate radical Islamic fundamentalists, who believe, among other things, that gays should be killed, that women who are raped should be killed, that women should no be allowed to vote or attend school, that people who don’t believe in their religion should be subjugated or killed, in that order, and that there can be no separation between government and religion. The ACLU wants the Ten Commandments (which they apparently have mistaken for a Christian symbol, despite the fact that they were given to the Hebrews centuries before this Jesus fellow ever walked the earth) out of court houses, but they defend Muslim prayer rugs and foot baths in public schools and airports. Muslims can wear head dresses and stop work three times a day for prayers, but a Christian may not wear a cross around their neck at many public schools and public-sector jobs, or say “Jesus” in a graduation speech, lest they offend anyone. One wishes that they could see the full fruition of their efforts, and put in place a totalitarian Islamic state that silences and kills the very infidels who supported them.