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	<title>Comments on: The Song That Is Irresistible: How the State Leads People to Their Own Destruction</title>
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	<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/11/30/the-song-that-is-irresistible-how-the-state-leads-people-to-their-own-destruction/</link>
	<description>Conservative and Libertarian Intellectual Philosophy and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: sedonaman</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/11/30/the-song-that-is-irresistible-how-the-state-leads-people-to-their-own-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-65158</link>
		<dc:creator>sedonaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t see any suggestions here except to abolish all government and let us all contract for our own police/fire/defense protection. No thoughts on how this is to work, either. He blames the people for “cry[ing] out for security, yet they will not take responsibility for their own protection.” What does he expect people to do? Form vigilante groups? 

The author also fails to mention that the expansion in government is fueled by convincing the people that it will be paid for by &quot;the rich&quot;. Most people I&#039;ve talked to agree there&#039;s no free lunch, but that&#039;s not all they want (yes, they want it even though it&#039;s impossible -- see &quot;the rich&quot; in previous sentence). A survey done by the &lt;i&gt;Wall Street Journal&lt;/i&gt; about 15 years ago found that people in general would still want the government to stick it to &quot;the rich&quot; even though they (the people) would be hurting themselves in the process. (Note that “the rich” pay 100 percent of the taxes.)

One other thought: We do have rule by judges. Congress has shown more than once that it is more than willing to hand over to the courts decisions on highly contentious issues. 

In partial support of the author’s thesis, I will, however, offer this quote: “Just as it is gravely wrong to take from individuals what they can accomplish by their own initiative and industry and give it to the community, so also it is an injustice and at the same time, a grave evil and disturbance of right order to assign to a greater and higher association what lesser and subordinate organizations can do. For every social activity ought of its very nature to furnish help (subsidium) to the members of the body social, and never destroy and absorb them.”  – Pope Pius XI in his classical encyclical, &lt;i&gt;Quadragesimo Anno&lt;/i&gt;, 1931.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see any suggestions here except to abolish all government and let us all contract for our own police/fire/defense protection. No thoughts on how this is to work, either. He blames the people for “cry[ing] out for security, yet they will not take responsibility for their own protection.” What does he expect people to do? Form vigilante groups? </p>
<p>The author also fails to mention that the expansion in government is fueled by convincing the people that it will be paid for by &#8220;the rich&#8221;. Most people I&#8217;ve talked to agree there&#8217;s no free lunch, but that&#8217;s not all they want (yes, they want it even though it&#8217;s impossible &#8212; see &#8220;the rich&#8221; in previous sentence). A survey done by the <i>Wall Street Journal</i> about 15 years ago found that people in general would still want the government to stick it to &#8220;the rich&#8221; even though they (the people) would be hurting themselves in the process. (Note that “the rich” pay 100 percent of the taxes.)</p>
<p>One other thought: We do have rule by judges. Congress has shown more than once that it is more than willing to hand over to the courts decisions on highly contentious issues. </p>
<p>In partial support of the author’s thesis, I will, however, offer this quote: “Just as it is gravely wrong to take from individuals what they can accomplish by their own initiative and industry and give it to the community, so also it is an injustice and at the same time, a grave evil and disturbance of right order to assign to a greater and higher association what lesser and subordinate organizations can do. For every social activity ought of its very nature to furnish help (subsidium) to the members of the body social, and never destroy and absorb them.”  – Pope Pius XI in his classical encyclical, <i>Quadragesimo Anno</i>, 1931.</p>
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		<title>By: mediocris</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/11/30/the-song-that-is-irresistible-how-the-state-leads-people-to-their-own-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-65157</link>
		<dc:creator>mediocris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 19:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/11/30/the-song-that-is-irresistible-how-the-state-leads-people-to-their-own-destruction/#comment-65157</guid>
		<description>I agree with your estimation of &quot;States&quot;. As an establishment they are quasi-criminal enterprises. The glory of democracy, properly established, is control of the members of the &quot;political class&quot; in power wielded and the duration of the agency of each. We need them to function for us, but only for us and only for as long as necessary. A large group of effective agents needs to be standing by, waiting for our needs, not established in power for their own interests. I believe the founders of the American Democracy intended this control and it is provided for by the U.S. Constitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your estimation of &#8220;States&#8221;. As an establishment they are quasi-criminal enterprises. The glory of democracy, properly established, is control of the members of the &#8220;political class&#8221; in power wielded and the duration of the agency of each. We need them to function for us, but only for us and only for as long as necessary. A large group of effective agents needs to be standing by, waiting for our needs, not established in power for their own interests. I believe the founders of the American Democracy intended this control and it is provided for by the U.S. Constitution.</p>
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		<title>By: ibbleblibble</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/11/30/the-song-that-is-irresistible-how-the-state-leads-people-to-their-own-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-65156</link>
		<dc:creator>ibbleblibble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 19:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/11/30/the-song-that-is-irresistible-how-the-state-leads-people-to-their-own-destruction/#comment-65156</guid>
		<description>but what would we have without &quot;the state&quot;, which i will narrow to &quot;government&quot;?  ah, the highest level of order concievable by the adolescent mind, anarchy.  

and in a no government, no state, pipe dream - never never land, would we indeed have no robbery, no oppresion, no injustice?  without a government to tax us, nobody would be exploited by anybody?  this is where i begin to have some problems with the sometimes contradictory message i&#039;m perhaps wrongy getting from the article.

it seems in our modern america we have vacillated over the last few generations between two equally ridiculous adolescent fantasies regarding government...

on the one hand we have the big gubbament santa claus fantasy, where socialist style government involvement can fix all the problems with no cost.  but indeed there is a cost - taxes must be levied to pay for such.  yes virginia, there is no free santa claus...

the other silly santa fantasy is the no-taxes-gubbament-always-stupid/bad fallacy.  gee, if i never paid taxes and that bad old gubbament just went away, everything would be alright.  gigantic corporations would never harm the little guys, always self regulate, and never ever unfairly stomp out competition, individual initiative, or freedom...

the irony is that the behemoth multinational corporations are every bit as dangerous to capitalism and individual initiative as socialism.  there is not better friend to entrepeneurial capitalism than a reasonably powerful, regulatory, independent-from-private influence, fair government.  

to assume that the current regime, which has infested government with partisan representatives of the very kraken-like corporate interests it should be regulating is representative of all government is a tad cynical.  yes, effective, good government, regardless of structure, requires a modicum of decency and virtue and when such is absent...

look at what we have now...the neocons, a pack of suited sociopathic corporatist aynranders whose satanic elitism respects nothing about democracy unless such is interprested by wealth and not numbers...which is not democracy but oligarchic plutocracy...

there have been times in our history in which those who oppose such have occupied our government and indeed they were not perfect.  nothing of this world is.  but at least they tried to make government work for more than the very wealthiest and most powerful...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but what would we have without &#8220;the state&#8221;, which i will narrow to &#8220;government&#8221;?  ah, the highest level of order concievable by the adolescent mind, anarchy.  </p>
<p>and in a no government, no state, pipe dream &#8211; never never land, would we indeed have no robbery, no oppresion, no injustice?  without a government to tax us, nobody would be exploited by anybody?  this is where i begin to have some problems with the sometimes contradictory message i&#8217;m perhaps wrongy getting from the article.</p>
<p>it seems in our modern america we have vacillated over the last few generations between two equally ridiculous adolescent fantasies regarding government&#8230;</p>
<p>on the one hand we have the big gubbament santa claus fantasy, where socialist style government involvement can fix all the problems with no cost.  but indeed there is a cost &#8211; taxes must be levied to pay for such.  yes virginia, there is no free santa claus&#8230;</p>
<p>the other silly santa fantasy is the no-taxes-gubbament-always-stupid/bad fallacy.  gee, if i never paid taxes and that bad old gubbament just went away, everything would be alright.  gigantic corporations would never harm the little guys, always self regulate, and never ever unfairly stomp out competition, individual initiative, or freedom&#8230;</p>
<p>the irony is that the behemoth multinational corporations are every bit as dangerous to capitalism and individual initiative as socialism.  there is not better friend to entrepeneurial capitalism than a reasonably powerful, regulatory, independent-from-private influence, fair government.  </p>
<p>to assume that the current regime, which has infested government with partisan representatives of the very kraken-like corporate interests it should be regulating is representative of all government is a tad cynical.  yes, effective, good government, regardless of structure, requires a modicum of decency and virtue and when such is absent&#8230;</p>
<p>look at what we have now&#8230;the neocons, a pack of suited sociopathic corporatist aynranders whose satanic elitism respects nothing about democracy unless such is interprested by wealth and not numbers&#8230;which is not democracy but oligarchic plutocracy&#8230;</p>
<p>there have been times in our history in which those who oppose such have occupied our government and indeed they were not perfect.  nothing of this world is.  but at least they tried to make government work for more than the very wealthiest and most powerful&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/11/30/the-song-that-is-irresistible-how-the-state-leads-people-to-their-own-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-65153</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 17:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/11/30/the-song-that-is-irresistible-how-the-state-leads-people-to-their-own-destruction/#comment-65153</guid>
		<description>In one of my darker moments, I wrote this:

Where Are The Statesman?

	I look, and I see a lie.  Everywhere there is injustice.  No one tells the truth, or seeks righteousness.  What is mankind&#039;s duty, but to do right?  Who seeks to uphold their duty?  Where is a principle higher than justice?  In all of the assembles of the regimes, who speaks for us?   I can find no one.  Power and authority has painted them all into a corner of darkness.  
	Those of the world defend them.  They defend the one who pads the account they draw from.  They protect the one with whom their self-interest is coincident.  While they sustain theirs, they rail ours.  While they languish in profit, and give us words of comfort, they bind us in poverty.  They incase us in their discipline while themselves running free.  There are no statesmen to be found!
	Free us, our Lord, from the oppression of the rulers.  Send them their due.  Give us your peace.  Rule us with the authority of your righteousness.
	When you come, O Lord, you will prove your faithfulness to the rulers, but we praise you now.  We know you, your loyalty, your fidelity; we give you our praise, our obedience, and we wait.
	Why is my fatherland dying?  Who will save the land?  Who will give justice and truth to its people?  Only the Lord, our God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In one of my darker moments, I wrote this:</p>
<p>Where Are The Statesman?</p>
<p>	I look, and I see a lie.  Everywhere there is injustice.  No one tells the truth, or seeks righteousness.  What is mankind&#8217;s duty, but to do right?  Who seeks to uphold their duty?  Where is a principle higher than justice?  In all of the assembles of the regimes, who speaks for us?   I can find no one.  Power and authority has painted them all into a corner of darkness.<br />
	Those of the world defend them.  They defend the one who pads the account they draw from.  They protect the one with whom their self-interest is coincident.  While they sustain theirs, they rail ours.  While they languish in profit, and give us words of comfort, they bind us in poverty.  They incase us in their discipline while themselves running free.  There are no statesmen to be found!<br />
	Free us, our Lord, from the oppression of the rulers.  Send them their due.  Give us your peace.  Rule us with the authority of your righteousness.<br />
	When you come, O Lord, you will prove your faithfulness to the rulers, but we praise you now.  We know you, your loyalty, your fidelity; we give you our praise, our obedience, and we wait.<br />
	Why is my fatherland dying?  Who will save the land?  Who will give justice and truth to its people?  Only the Lord, our God.</p>
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		<title>By: J3</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/11/30/the-song-that-is-irresistible-how-the-state-leads-people-to-their-own-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-65148</link>
		<dc:creator>J3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2007 12:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/11/30/the-song-that-is-irresistible-how-the-state-leads-people-to-their-own-destruction/#comment-65148</guid>
		<description>Does this mean that the great American Experiment is just another 
&quot;closed loop&quot; destined to the fate of Athens, Rome, et al?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does this mean that the great American Experiment is just another<br />
&#8220;closed loop&#8221; destined to the fate of Athens, Rome, et al?</p>
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		<title>By: ibbleblibble</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/11/30/the-song-that-is-irresistible-how-the-state-leads-people-to-their-own-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-65105</link>
		<dc:creator>ibbleblibble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2007/11/30/the-song-that-is-irresistible-how-the-state-leads-people-to-their-own-destruction/#comment-65105</guid>
		<description>excellent article!  bravo!

i would like to point out, however that there have been times when goverment has done good things.  much depends on the moral compass of those who occupy government, as well as that of the governed, even in less democratic participatory societies.  

anarchy inevitably leads to repressive tyranny and repressive tyrrany inevitably returns society to some form af anarchy.  in all societies, regardless of how &quot;equal&quot; or &quot;fair&quot;, the clever, industrious, and ruthless do indeed rise to the top...

but i guess where i depart from the author a tad is that i don&#039;t necesarily see a distinction between the elite political and economic classes.  the elites of our current state cross the ever permeable line between polity and economy as facilely as the communist elites of the soviet union did but in a different manner.  

of course &quot;government&quot; is not the same as &quot;state&quot; is it, in any system.

but great article...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>excellent article!  bravo!</p>
<p>i would like to point out, however that there have been times when goverment has done good things.  much depends on the moral compass of those who occupy government, as well as that of the governed, even in less democratic participatory societies.  </p>
<p>anarchy inevitably leads to repressive tyranny and repressive tyrrany inevitably returns society to some form af anarchy.  in all societies, regardless of how &#8220;equal&#8221; or &#8220;fair&#8221;, the clever, industrious, and ruthless do indeed rise to the top&#8230;</p>
<p>but i guess where i depart from the author a tad is that i don&#8217;t necesarily see a distinction between the elite political and economic classes.  the elites of our current state cross the ever permeable line between polity and economy as facilely as the communist elites of the soviet union did but in a different manner.  </p>
<p>of course &#8220;government&#8221; is not the same as &#8220;state&#8221; is it, in any system.</p>
<p>but great article&#8230;</p>
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