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	<title>Comments on: Bush Administration Pursues &quot;Reasonable&quot; Ban on Guns</title>
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	<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/02/09/bush-administration-pursues-reasonable-ban-on-guns/</link>
	<description>Conservative and Libertarian Intellectual Philosophy and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Bush Administration Pursues “Reasonable” Ban on Guns &#171; Sword At-The-Ready</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/02/09/bush-administration-pursues-reasonable-ban-on-guns/comment-page-1/#comment-70601</link>
		<dc:creator>Bush Administration Pursues “Reasonable” Ban on Guns &#171; Sword At-The-Ready</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 03:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/02/09/bush-administration-pursues-reasonable-ban-on-guns/#comment-70601</guid>
		<description>[...] Bush Administration Pursues “Reasonable” Ban on Guns Leave it to the Bush Administration to put forward the argument that the Constitution permits &#8220;reasonable&#8221; infringement of the right to keep and bear arms. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bush Administration Pursues “Reasonable” Ban on Guns Leave it to the Bush Administration to put forward the argument that the Constitution permits &#034;reasonable&#034; infringement of the right to keep and bear arms. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: nick adams</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/02/09/bush-administration-pursues-reasonable-ban-on-guns/comment-page-1/#comment-70580</link>
		<dc:creator>nick adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/02/09/bush-administration-pursues-reasonable-ban-on-guns/#comment-70580</guid>
		<description>The matter is simple. If anyone wants to change &quot;shall not be infringed&quot;  to may be infringed, all they have to do is change the language of the Constitution. There is a process for that.

Laziness, pure laziness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The matter is simple. If anyone wants to change &#034;shall not be infringed&#034;  to may be infringed, all they have to do is change the language of the Constitution. There is a process for that.</p>
<p>Laziness, pure laziness.</p>
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		<title>By: Support this story on Stirrdup</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/02/09/bush-administration-pursues-reasonable-ban-on-guns/comment-page-1/#comment-70458</link>
		<dc:creator>Support this story on Stirrdup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/02/09/bush-administration-pursues-reasonable-ban-on-guns/#comment-70458</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Bush Administration Pursues Reasonable Ban on Guns</strong></p>
<p>This story has been submitted to Stirrdup.  Your support can help it become hot.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph BH McMillan</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/02/09/bush-administration-pursues-reasonable-ban-on-guns/comment-page-1/#comment-70450</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph BH McMillan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 10:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/02/09/bush-administration-pursues-reasonable-ban-on-guns/#comment-70450</guid>
		<description>Dear Larry,

“The right of the People to keep and bear Arms” is about the only remaining ‘right’ that has any semblance of ‘substantive’ content. To whittle it down with a ‘reasonableness test’ would reduce it to the level of our other ‘rights’ – a ‘procedural expectation’.

But I must admit that it would take a really ‘creative interpretation’ of the Constitution to get round “shall not be infringed” – but the one thing we have come to expect from SCOTUS is ‘creativity’.

But, yet again, even the fact that the Bush People could submit such a Brief illustrates to me that these things we call ‘rights’ are a joke. Of course, the Brief could simply have argued that the ‘right’ to bear arms is realized through the elected representatives of the People ‘arming’ law enforcement authorities. That would neatly get round the “shall not be infringed” provision. The Brief could thus have argued that the peoples’ ‘right’ is exercised sort of by ‘proxy’. The rationale would be that the ‘right’ is ‘defined’ and ‘limited’ by the provision “being necessary to the security of a free state”.

If the argument were put that way, the ‘right’ as we know it would simply disappear. The Court would have to ask itself how the ‘right’ to bear arms could most effectively be implemented in order to achieve the ‘objective’ of preserving the “security of a free state”.

From there it would a simple matter to assert that the “security of a free state” requires, even demands, that arms be kept out of the hands of ordinary citizens (because unrestricted possession of arms could be ‘threat’ to the “security of a free state”), and that the ‘right’ be reserved to law enforcement who would “keep and bear Arms” on behalf of the People in the interests of preserving “the security of a free state.”

Of course, I would strongly disagree with such an interpretation, but we should make no mistake about it, it is coming.

The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in the case of Konrad and Others v Germany applied precisely such an argument when upholding Germany’s prohibition of Homeschooling. The ECHR said this: “any interference [with rights to family life, education, freedom of thought, etc] would …be justified as being provided by law and necessary in a democratic society and in the public interest of securing the education of the child.” [I refer to this case in my book Freedom v A Tyranny of Rights]

Simply substitute the bearing of Arms into that reasoning, and the ‘right’ to “keep and bear Arms” is gone. It could go like this – ‘any interference with the “right of the people to keep and bear Arms” would be justified as “being necessary to the security of a free state”, and the ‘right’ would thus be exercised on behalf of the people through the arming of law enforcement officers appointed by the state for that purpose – the preservation of “the security of a free state”’

Joseph BH McMillan   www.freedomvrights.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Larry,</p>
<p>“The right of the People to keep and bear Arms” is about the only remaining ‘right’ that has any semblance of ‘substantive’ content. To whittle it down with a ‘reasonableness test’ would reduce it to the level of our other ‘rights’ – a ‘procedural expectation’.</p>
<p>But I must admit that it would take a really ‘creative interpretation’ of the Constitution to get round “shall not be infringed” – but the one thing we have come to expect from SCOTUS is ‘creativity’.</p>
<p>But, yet again, even the fact that the Bush People could submit such a Brief illustrates to me that these things we call ‘rights’ are a joke. Of course, the Brief could simply have argued that the ‘right’ to bear arms is realized through the elected representatives of the People ‘arming’ law enforcement authorities. That would neatly get round the “shall not be infringed” provision. The Brief could thus have argued that the peoples’ ‘right’ is exercised sort of by ‘proxy’. The rationale would be that the ‘right’ is ‘defined’ and ‘limited’ by the provision “being necessary to the security of a free state”.</p>
<p>If the argument were put that way, the ‘right’ as we know it would simply disappear. The Court would have to ask itself how the ‘right’ to bear arms could most effectively be implemented in order to achieve the ‘objective’ of preserving the “security of a free state”.</p>
<p>From there it would a simple matter to assert that the “security of a free state” requires, even demands, that arms be kept out of the hands of ordinary citizens (because unrestricted possession of arms could be ‘threat’ to the “security of a free state”), and that the ‘right’ be reserved to law enforcement who would “keep and bear Arms” on behalf of the People in the interests of preserving “the security of a free state.”</p>
<p>Of course, I would strongly disagree with such an interpretation, but we should make no mistake about it, it is coming.</p>
<p>The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in the case of Konrad and Others v Germany applied precisely such an argument when upholding Germany’s prohibition of Homeschooling. The ECHR said this: “any interference [with rights to family life, education, freedom of thought, etc] would …be justified as being provided by law and necessary in a democratic society and in the public interest of securing the education of the child.” [I refer to this case in my book Freedom v A Tyranny of Rights]</p>
<p>Simply substitute the bearing of Arms into that reasoning, and the ‘right’ to “keep and bear Arms” is gone. It could go like this – ‘any interference with the “right of the people to keep and bear Arms” would be justified as “being necessary to the security of a free state”, and the ‘right’ would thus be exercised on behalf of the people through the arming of law enforcement officers appointed by the state for that purpose – the preservation of “the security of a free state”’</p>
<p>Joseph BH McMillan   <a href="http://www.freedomvrights.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.freedomvrights.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bush Administration&#8217;s Brief Offers &#8220;Reasonable Ban on Guns&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/02/09/bush-administration-pursues-reasonable-ban-on-guns/comment-page-1/#comment-70446</link>
		<dc:creator>Bush Administration&#8217;s Brief Offers &#8220;Reasonable Ban on Guns&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 03:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/02/09/bush-administration-pursues-reasonable-ban-on-guns/#comment-70446</guid>
		<description>[...] Larry Pratt, Executive Director of Gun Owners of America, has written a piece over at Intellectual Conservative detailing how the &#8220;Bush Administration Pursues “Reasonable” Ban on Guns&#8220;: On the one hand, the brief argues that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms that predated the creation of the U.S. government by the people. On the other hand, it concludes that any and all guns can be controlled or banned if a federal court finds that to be a reasonable restriction or ban. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Larry Pratt, Executive Director of Gun Owners of America, has written a piece over at Intellectual Conservative detailing how the &#034;Bush Administration Pursues “Reasonable” Ban on Guns&#034;: On the one hand, the brief argues that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms that predated the creation of the U.S. government by the people. On the other hand, it concludes that any and all guns can be controlled or banned if a federal court finds that to be a reasonable restriction or ban. [...]</p>
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