<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Striking changes in Arizona as illegal immigrants flee the state</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/</link>
	<description>Conservative and Libertarian Intellectual Philosophy and Politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:00:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Arizona and illegal immigration - TDR Roundtable</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/comment-page-1/#comment-72379</link>
		<dc:creator>Arizona and illegal immigration - TDR Roundtable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 07:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/#comment-72379</guid>
		<description>[...] and illegal immigration      Intellectual Conservative Politics and Philosophy  the state&#039;s most serious problems such as traffic congestion and the expense of teaching English [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and illegal immigration      Intellectual Conservative Politics and Philosophy  the state&#8217;s most serious problems such as traffic congestion and the expense of teaching English [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nihilisten - svensk integralism</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/comment-page-1/#comment-72226</link>
		<dc:creator>Nihilisten - svensk integralism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 19:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/#comment-72226</guid>
		<description>[...] http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants.." rel="nofollow">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants..</a>. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pat Skurka</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/comment-page-1/#comment-72195</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Skurka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 21:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/#comment-72195</guid>
		<description>Excellent article, factual and neither overly optimistic or overly pessimistic. But, it’s just one battle in the war and too early to even hint at a final victory – and, in that regard, this author handled the balance and context very well.

Eventually, these types of limited successes leak out into the general population and Liberal Axis members will strike back using their standard propaganda tactics. First, the problem for illegal immigration supporters is to prevent the spread of enforcement success to other locales. Without enforcement at the national level, the tendency among illegals will be to up anchor and move to some other locale with less active enforcement. California is full up at the moment, but that leaves other states which can absorb many more illegals. As long as there isn’t widespread national enforcement and certainly during a presidential election year when illegal immigration is a “touchy” subject, the liberals may choose to ignore the enforcement success – for now. 

But, if Texas and California make noises about emulating Arizona’s success, that could change rapidly. Recently, there has been some enforcement effort in California. The restaurant chain “El Balazo” had 11 locations in the Bay Area closed recently due to its practice of using mostly illegal workers. The price of tough as leather steak burritos, fish tacos and cold Tecate will be going up soon, but we’ll survive somehow. However, enforcement on Arizona’s scale just isn’t happening here – so the liberals can breathe a sigh of relief.

Elected and unelected government employees can also be mobilized to stop or hinder enforcement efforts. Ballot initiatives opposing illegal immigration are unreliable – California voters have passed several such initiatives on various hot button issues only to see them overturned by the courts. The recent “gay marriage” issue is one such example. And what can voters really do about seeing their desires ignored or overturned – the answer is absolutely nothing with present leadership. There are many tactics voters can use to express displeasure, but the current emotional index is such that illegal immigration opposition leaders haven’t invoked them.

Economic boycotts are the best tactic available to express displeasure since even liberals like to eat and need money to make the lease payment on the Mercedes – but such boycotts require time and organization to be successful. McCain can be counted on to ignore the problem entirely leaving conservatives without a national spokesperson and the only alternative being a grass roots effort.

Lastly, conservatives still have a divided philosophy when it comes to immigration, illegal or otherwise. Even this author felt obliged to utter the standard caveat that immigrants bring benefits – amen to that concept, but unnecessary, in this context, to establish a “compassionate conservative” façade. Facts help, of course. And, conservatives have a peculiar penchant for facts and logic over emotion. For example, most Americans don’t realize the unemployment rate in Mexico is no worse than in the United States and much lower than in Michigan - or that the overwhelming majority of illegals had a job in Mexico before deciding to come here – they weren’t homeless or starving on the streets. 

Also, illegals don’t ask permission and Americans get no choice in deciding which immigrants bring which needed benefits. When brain surgeons, aeronautical engineers, investment bankers or petroleum scientists are crossing the desert each night from Mexico, that objection could certainly change – but how likely are we to see that happening? Also, how do Asians swim the Pacific to enter America illegally – so where is that fabled cultural diversity immigrants supposedly bring to the table?

And, conservatives desperately need consensus on immigration “philosophy”. Going back to the El Balazo raid in the San Francisco area, the liberals pulled out all the “poor illegal” cards and slapped them loudly on the airwaves. Complaints by the liberal media (sorry for the redundancy) were that the Mexican consulate wasn’t immediately notified about the raid, although many of the illegals were from Guatemala. The raids occurred one day after the annually scheduled “Illegal Immigrant” sympathy day – coincidence or government plot? The ubiquitous innocent illegal woman was paraded around – “she’s been in the country 11 years and only wants to work” spiel was aired. Facts, for those who care, is that 11 locations were raided and 63 illegals detained – quite a haul for a supposedly law abiding business. The detainees were immediately turned loose on their own recognizance while their status is being “processed”. No word on whether the business owners were also turned loose on ROR.  

All that gooey liberal anguish over people who are essentially no worse off today. They’re still here and still illegal and not leaving any time soon, if ever. But, this author deserves thanks for a factual info-essay and we can only hope more conservatives will grow a backbone and display some of that gooey, self-righteous anguish of their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article, factual and neither overly optimistic or overly pessimistic. But, it’s just one battle in the war and too early to even hint at a final victory – and, in that regard, this author handled the balance and context very well.</p>
<p>Eventually, these types of limited successes leak out into the general population and Liberal Axis members will strike back using their standard propaganda tactics. First, the problem for illegal immigration supporters is to prevent the spread of enforcement success to other locales. Without enforcement at the national level, the tendency among illegals will be to up anchor and move to some other locale with less active enforcement. California is full up at the moment, but that leaves other states which can absorb many more illegals. As long as there isn’t widespread national enforcement and certainly during a presidential election year when illegal immigration is a “touchy” subject, the liberals may choose to ignore the enforcement success – for now. </p>
<p>But, if Texas and California make noises about emulating Arizona’s success, that could change rapidly. Recently, there has been some enforcement effort in California. The restaurant chain “El Balazo” had 11 locations in the Bay Area closed recently due to its practice of using mostly illegal workers. The price of tough as leather steak burritos, fish tacos and cold Tecate will be going up soon, but we’ll survive somehow. However, enforcement on Arizona’s scale just isn’t happening here – so the liberals can breathe a sigh of relief.</p>
<p>Elected and unelected government employees can also be mobilized to stop or hinder enforcement efforts. Ballot initiatives opposing illegal immigration are unreliable – California voters have passed several such initiatives on various hot button issues only to see them overturned by the courts. The recent “gay marriage” issue is one such example. And what can voters really do about seeing their desires ignored or overturned – the answer is absolutely nothing with present leadership. There are many tactics voters can use to express displeasure, but the current emotional index is such that illegal immigration opposition leaders haven’t invoked them.</p>
<p>Economic boycotts are the best tactic available to express displeasure since even liberals like to eat and need money to make the lease payment on the Mercedes – but such boycotts require time and organization to be successful. McCain can be counted on to ignore the problem entirely leaving conservatives without a national spokesperson and the only alternative being a grass roots effort.</p>
<p>Lastly, conservatives still have a divided philosophy when it comes to immigration, illegal or otherwise. Even this author felt obliged to utter the standard caveat that immigrants bring benefits – amen to that concept, but unnecessary, in this context, to establish a “compassionate conservative” façade. Facts help, of course. And, conservatives have a peculiar penchant for facts and logic over emotion. For example, most Americans don’t realize the unemployment rate in Mexico is no worse than in the United States and much lower than in Michigan &#8211; or that the overwhelming majority of illegals had a job in Mexico before deciding to come here – they weren’t homeless or starving on the streets. </p>
<p>Also, illegals don’t ask permission and Americans get no choice in deciding which immigrants bring which needed benefits. When brain surgeons, aeronautical engineers, investment bankers or petroleum scientists are crossing the desert each night from Mexico, that objection could certainly change – but how likely are we to see that happening? Also, how do Asians swim the Pacific to enter America illegally – so where is that fabled cultural diversity immigrants supposedly bring to the table?</p>
<p>And, conservatives desperately need consensus on immigration “philosophy”. Going back to the El Balazo raid in the San Francisco area, the liberals pulled out all the “poor illegal” cards and slapped them loudly on the airwaves. Complaints by the liberal media (sorry for the redundancy) were that the Mexican consulate wasn’t immediately notified about the raid, although many of the illegals were from Guatemala. The raids occurred one day after the annually scheduled “Illegal Immigrant” sympathy day – coincidence or government plot? The ubiquitous innocent illegal woman was paraded around – “she’s been in the country 11 years and only wants to work” spiel was aired. Facts, for those who care, is that 11 locations were raided and 63 illegals detained – quite a haul for a supposedly law abiding business. The detainees were immediately turned loose on their own recognizance while their status is being “processed”. No word on whether the business owners were also turned loose on ROR.  </p>
<p>All that gooey liberal anguish over people who are essentially no worse off today. They’re still here and still illegal and not leaving any time soon, if ever. But, this author deserves thanks for a factual info-essay and we can only hope more conservatives will grow a backbone and display some of that gooey, self-righteous anguish of their own.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick Mulligan</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/comment-page-1/#comment-72194</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Mulligan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 19:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/#comment-72194</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s amazing how effective laws can be when they are actually enforced. What a novel concept. Other states should begin feasibility studies to see if enforcing the laws in their states might have a similar effect. This could be revolutionary!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s amazing how effective laws can be when they are actually enforced. What a novel concept. Other states should begin feasibility studies to see if enforcing the laws in their states might have a similar effect. This could be revolutionary!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Dustin Inman Society Blog &#187; Arizona seeing benefits of and proof that ENFORCEMENT WORKS</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/comment-page-1/#comment-72193</link>
		<dc:creator>The Dustin Inman Society Blog &#187; Arizona seeing benefits of and proof that ENFORCEMENT WORKS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 15:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/#comment-72193</guid>
		<description>[...] Striking changes in Arizona as illegals flee the state  Arizona is leading the nation in local enforcement of laws against illegal immigration. As illegal [aliens] leave the state, the state&#8217;s most serious problems such as traffic congestion and the expense of teaching English Language Learner classes are dissipating.  HERE [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Striking changes in Arizona as illegals flee the state  Arizona is leading the nation in local enforcement of laws against illegal immigration. As illegal [aliens] leave the state, the state&#8217;s most serious problems such as traffic congestion and the expense of teaching English Language Learner classes are dissipating.  HERE [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bucky</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/comment-page-1/#comment-72189</link>
		<dc:creator>bucky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 14:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/#comment-72189</guid>
		<description>But wait.....wasn&#039;t the Employer Sanctions Bill supposed to destroy our state economy? Salvadore Reza, Elias Bermudas, E.J. Montini and others warned us that the state economy would be devastated if we kept up pressure on illegals - um I mean &quot;undocumented immigrants&quot;.

Now if only Janet Napolitano, Phil Gordon and Terry Goddard would admit the truth....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But wait&#8230;..wasn&#8217;t the Employer Sanctions Bill supposed to destroy our state economy? Salvadore Reza, Elias Bermudas, E.J. Montini and others warned us that the state economy would be devastated if we kept up pressure on illegals &#8211; um I mean &#8220;undocumented immigrants&#8221;.</p>
<p>Now if only Janet Napolitano, Phil Gordon and Terry Goddard would admit the truth&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Enforcement Doesn&#8217;t Work? &#187; Freedom Folks</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/comment-page-1/#comment-72185</link>
		<dc:creator>Enforcement Doesn&#8217;t Work? &#187; Freedom Folks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 08:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/15/striking-changes-in-arizona-as-illegal-immigrants-flee-the-state/#comment-72185</guid>
		<description>[...] be shocked to learn that they were wrong once again&#8230;.(The first link is to ALIPAC, here is the actual link to the author&#8217;s blog, they have WMP embedded and that hangs up my browser something fierce!) Striking changes in Arizona [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] be shocked to learn that they were wrong once again&#8230;.(The first link is to ALIPAC, here is the actual link to the author&#8217;s blog, they have WMP embedded and that hangs up my browser something fierce!) Striking changes in Arizona [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

