“…liberals deny any and all authority… The country is just one big pot of anarchy with no laws or courts or anything?”
I didn’t say liberals “deny any and all authority;” I said they are DEFIANT to any and all authority; nor did I say that “the country is just one big pot of anarchy with no laws or courts or anything.” Ever hear of the Weather Underground?
“In fact, I think your country was initially formed from such a [revolution] process, no?”
I love this argument. The American Revolutionary War was not a Leftist revolution; the French Revolution was a Leftist revolution. Nor were the American founding fathers “liberal” by today’s understanding of the word “liberal”. When President George Washington left office, he was proud of the fact that the average citizen had no contact with the federal government. Today, liberals are proud of saying such things as, “Liberalism is how we come together through government.”
“…you apparently contend that ‘liberals’ curtail viewpoints, or something (while simultaneously promoting diversity). I’m not aware of these speech codes. Could you give an example of one that says if you criticize Obama then you’re a racist?”
The Obama example is an informal one. Anyone critical of Obama has been labeled a racist. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/11/AR2008101102216.html?hpid=topnews .
College/university speech codes are legion in this country.
There is a cottage industry that has sprung up to defend student free speech rights. Here is an organization I have contributed to for the last 3 or 4 years. http://www.thefire.org
They have a section http://www.thefire.org/index.php/redalert?PHPSESSID=c60fa75f25d23c244281b378a715790c where a prospective student can learn about a school’s speech code before he applies and then make a decision.
“Promotion of ‘tolerance’ has bred aggressive intolerance for any individual who does not endorse and approve any behavior, no matter how immoral it may be. These attacks often come in the form of so-called ‘anti-discrimination’ policies which attempt to force campus ministries to compromise their Biblical standards…” http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/issues/ReligiousFreedom/UniversityLife.aspx These speech codes have been, and are still being, used to silence Christian student clubs on campus. Tearing them down is like dismantling the Great Pyramid one block at a time.
While this is not really an example of a speech code, the University of Delaware runs a shocking example of an attempted indoctrination into the “correct” attitudes, and part of it involves students being asked by their resident advisors such personal questions as, “When did you become aware of your sexuality.”
http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/8555.html .
You refered to my country. I assume by that you live outside the U.S. Did you know that you could go to jail in England if you said to a mounted police officer so much as, “Did you know your horse is gay?” http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/4606022.stm . And in Canada there is some sort of Ministry that watches out for politically incorrect speech.

“You misread my statement. I meant that liberals support pedophilia [except by Catholics and Republicans].”

No, that’s exactly how I read it. And…you must not be serious. Come on. “Liberals support pedophilia.” Does this even deserve a response.

“Again, you misread my statement. I meant that liberals support sodomy [except by Catholics and Republicans].”

As above.

“”Defiance of any and all authority”

Yes. Revolution is at the heart of Leftism. You haven’t heard them complain about hierarchy in society? (E.g., “Schools should not create differences between students who know more and those who know less.” – Leftist complaint about an academic recognition program.)”

The statement that liberals deny any and all authority is completely ludicrous. You mean there’s no “liberal” working for anyone else? No liberals in government? The country is just one big pot of anarchy with no laws or courts or anything?

Oh, and I don’t see what’s necessarily so bad about revolution when it’s needed. In fact, I think your country was initially formed from such a process, no? Too bad you live in a place created by those nasty anti-authoritarian revolutionary liberals.

““How can diversity not include that of viewpoints?”

Easy. You just establish a speech code. E.g., criticize Obama, and you are a racist. If there is a college or university that doesn’t have one, I’d like to know which one it is. These codes are universally selectively enforce against Christians and conservatives in general. Affirmative action bake sales are a method of protest against affirmative action http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/4133.html?PHPSESSID=6698c8eaf05314e02fffd28172917276 . Universities, again run by liberals / Leftists have tried to shut them down.”

I don’t really like affirmative action myself, but I don’t see how your response addresses my question. I was asking about liberalism and viewpoints, and you apparently contend that “liberals” curtail viewpoints, or something (while simultaneously promoting diversity). I’m not aware of these speech codes. Could you give an example of one that says if you criticize Obama then you’re a racist?

“Yes. Conservatives maintain the human person as made in the image and likeness of God. This is where we get the idea that all are created equal. You cannot maintain the human dignity of all and at the same time destroy the most helpless. Liberals / Leftists on the other hand, do not believe this.”

Um, this doesn’t sound like a conservative/liberal thing at all, but rather trying to legislate particular religious beliefs as law. What about conservatives that don’t believe in god? Which god are we talking about anyway?

Your thing about female student masturbation workshops is bizarre. I don’t see how that fits in anywhere. Why does people learning about their sexuality bother you so much?

““Whose morals, precisely…”

This itself kinda answers its own question.”

Not really. The question of whose morals we follow and why is a good one. I think they should be based on reason and be open for critique. The morals should preserve everyone’s freedom to do what they want without hurting someone else unnecessarily. They should allow society to function smoothly. Is this a problem? You mention moral relativism as a leftist boogeyman, but exactly what do you mean by that? Is it that you don’t like the idea of humans deciding what morals should be in a human society?

“”Hate for the Christian religion Really? Like what?”

You must not have read the part about Bill Maher above. He is making a career out of Catholic bashing”

Oh sure, some people, liberal or not, don’t like the Christian religion. A lot of conservative Christians don’t like other religions either. Anyone has free speech to say what they like or don’t like personally. What I don’t see is any *political* effort by the left to institute hate for Christianity or any other religion.

“”Forcing liberal beliefs on others. What are these beliefs? Forcing them how?”

That all the things I’ve listed are “acceptable”. They are being forced through “hate crimes” laws, for one, and speech codes as I’ve stated above, for another.”
I don’t see where you’ve shown this to be the case. Could you give a specific example of a ‘liberal’ belief that’s forced on you?

“I could go on, but space and time limit. Let me close by stating that the liberal/Leftist message is one Big Lie because it sets up man as the arbiter of morality. This lie must be propagated, that’s why they fight so hard to prevent things like school vouchers.”
That’s too bad since you didn’t get around to some of the things I hoped you would. I have to say, I’m not sure I get your complaint of man being the arbiter of morality. We live in a society of humans and we humans govern ourselves. Who should let be the arbiter of our morality?

Well said!

I would go further and say that Maher’s “arguments” are simply a little less elegant anti-theism, but the same substance in a coarser form. It’s still the typical atheist tripe.

Pretty close to what I had in mind. Thx.

Let me address just a few others for Uima.

“This [abortion] is a conservative vs. liberal issue?”

Yes. Conservatives maintain the human person as made in the image and likeness of God. This is where we get the idea that all are created equal. You cannot maintain the human dignity of all and at the same time destroy the most helpless. Liberals / Leftists on the other hand, do not believe this.

It’s no secret that liberals / Leftists run the universities. That is where ideas originate and migrate out to the society at large. Only they would come up with female student masturbation workshops and call them “academic studies” so they could get funding http://townhall.com/columnists/MikeSAdams/2006/01/30/why_i_don%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%84%A2t_take_feminists_seriously,_part_iv . If you page down to reason #13, you will find a link to Grinnell College. Click on the link and you will get the following message: “Note: The Article entitled ‘How To Love Your Body’ has been removed due to it [sic] being used without permission, an infringement of copyright. If you would like the article, please contact the webmaster.” Go to http://www.amazon.com/Feminists-Say-Darndest-Things-Politically/dp/1595230424 and read the paragraph “From Publishers Weekly” for additional comments. This is only one of the more outrageous things promoted by the liberals / Leftists.

“Whose morals, precisely…”

This itself kinda answers its own question.

“Who is condoning pedophilia by Catholics and Republicans?”

You misread my statement. I meant that liberals support pedophilia [except by Catholics and Republicans].

“Who is condoning sodomy by Catholic priests and Republicans?”

Again, you misread my statement. I meant that liberals support sodomy [except by Catholics and Republicans].

“Defiance of any and all authority”

Yes. Revolution is at the heart of Leftism. You haven’t heard them complain about hierarchy in society? (E.g., “Schools should not create differences between students who know more and those who know less.” – Leftist complaint about an academic recognition program.)

“How can diversity not include that of viewpoints?”

Easy. You just establish a speech code. E.g., criticize Obama, and you are a racist. If there is a college or university that doesn’t have one, I’d like to know which one it is. These codes are universally selectively enforce against Christians and conservatives in general. Affirmative action bake sales are a method of protest against affirmative action http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/4133.html?PHPSESSID=6698c8eaf05314e02fffd28172917276 . Universities, again run by liberals / Leftists have tried to shut them down.

“Hate for the Christian religion Really? Like what?”

You must not have read the part about Bill Maher above. He is making a career out of Catholic bashing http://www.catholicleague.org/release_quarter.php?year=2008&month_begin=4&month_end=6 .

“Forcing liberal beliefs on others. What are these beliefs? Forcing them how?”

That all the things I’ve listed are “acceptable”. They are being forced through “hate crimes” laws, for one, and speech codes as I’ve stated above, for another.

I could go on, but space and time limit. Let me close by stating that the liberal/Leftist message is one Big Lie because it sets up man as the arbiter of morality. This lie must be propagated, that’s why they fight so hard to prevent things like school vouchers.

On the other hand, those who treat ‘Religulous’ as the pinnace of atheistic argument would do well to remember that, too…

I’m only guessing what sedonaman might mean by some of what he’s written, but your responses (actually, non-responses)are less than intellectuat. Typing the word “huh,” “really,” and “news to me” do not constitute an engagement of ideas.

Private property: Any thinking person can discern that Leftists (I prefer this term to “Liberals”) are attacking property rights. Kelo. Anti-smoking laws. Open space requirements. Sidewalk requirements. Nature trail set asides. Further, income tax is an abridgement of property rights, since it forces law abiding citizens to part with the fruit of their labor (labor is also property).

Abortion is a conservative issue, since social conservatives are conservative. Leftists love to kill pre-born babies, while social conservatives love life.

Anti-democracy: Leftists don’t like people deciding for themselves how to vote. That’s why leftists use the courts to force through their agenda without bothering with the inconvenience of putting their ideas up for a vote. Google Acorn to see how much leftists hate the democratic process.

Diversity of viewpoint: Again, thousands of examples are available to any inquiring mind. Speech codes, censoring religious expression, shouting down conservative speakers on college campuses, preventing coaches from praying along with their teams, Fairness Doctrine, etc, etc.

“The US is a secular country.” No it isn’t. Uima, an unsupported assertion on your part only requires a summary denial on mine. Make you case from history.

“What is the conservative hangup about sex?” Conservatives aren’t hung up about sex. What is the leftist obsession with sex?

I guess I could go on, but Leftists seldom see reality, only their carefully constructed straw men.