Comments on: Castrating the Constitution: The Real Stakes in ’08 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/04/castrating-the-constitution-the-real-stakes-in-08/ Conservative and Libertarian Intellectual Philosophy and Politics Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:00:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: luminousball http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/04/castrating-the-constitution-the-real-stakes-in-08/comment-page-1/#comment-74778 luminousball Sun, 09 Nov 2008 02:10:22 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/04/castrating-the-constitution-the-real-stakes-in-08/#comment-74778 Mr. Melton demonstrates a serious lack of understanding about the nature of language with the premise of this article. Language is by its very nature arbitrary and conventional. Arbitrary in that the words contain no inherent or innate meaning, and conventional in that meaning, usage and grammar are a matter of broad consensus among ALL speakers of the language (in this case, since we are strictly speaking about American English, all speakers include all Americans. In short, meaning is a matter of context and broad assumption. And language and meaning are in constant flux. To assume that the English language is spoken, written, and understood in exactly the same way today as it was 221 years ago is simply absurd. No President, lawmaker, nor judge can ever eliminate the fact that the PRECISE meaning of any written or spoken passage remains at least fractionally vague. And with increased temporal separation from the moment of its writing, the meaning posesses even greater uncertainty, depending on the semantic complexity of the original passage. Mr. Melton demonstrates a serious lack of understanding about the nature of language with the premise of this article. Language is by its very nature arbitrary and conventional. Arbitrary in that the words contain no inherent or innate meaning, and conventional in that meaning, usage and grammar are a matter of broad consensus among ALL speakers of the language (in this case, since we are strictly speaking about American English, all speakers include all Americans. In short, meaning is a matter of context and broad assumption. And language and meaning are in constant flux. To assume that the English language is spoken, written, and understood in exactly the same way today as it was 221 years ago is simply absurd. No President, lawmaker, nor judge can ever eliminate the fact that the PRECISE meaning of any written or spoken passage remains at least fractionally vague. And with increased temporal separation from the moment of its writing, the meaning posesses even greater uncertainty, depending on the semantic complexity of the original passage.

]]> By: Mountain Man http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/04/castrating-the-constitution-the-real-stakes-in-08/comment-page-1/#comment-74735 Mountain Man Thu, 06 Nov 2008 19:09:30 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/04/castrating-the-constitution-the-real-stakes-in-08/#comment-74735 MG, good point. BO does understand the constitution, he just doesn't like it. I bow before you, sir. MG, good point. BO does understand the constitution, he just doesn’t like it.

I bow before you, sir.

]]> By: Mickey G http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/04/castrating-the-constitution-the-real-stakes-in-08/comment-page-1/#comment-74731 Mickey G Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:08:03 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/04/castrating-the-constitution-the-real-stakes-in-08/#comment-74731 Mountain Man, I disagree. The Omessiah understands the constitution and realizes that following it does not work in promoting his agendas therefore it is "flawed" and needs to be "interpreted" (read this as I know we can't change it the way the framers designed because the voters will not support our agendas therefore we use judicial activism to make the constitution read the way we think it should instead of the way it was written and intended to be read). In short the Omessiah is a dangerous fraud. Mountain Man, I disagree. The Omessiah understands the constitution and realizes that following it does not work in promoting his agendas therefore it is “flawed” and needs to be “interpreted” (read this as I know we can’t change it the way the framers designed because the voters will not support our agendas therefore we use judicial activism to make the constitution read the way we think it should instead of the way it was written and intended to be read). In short the Omessiah is a dangerous fraud.

]]> By: Mountain Man http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/04/castrating-the-constitution-the-real-stakes-in-08/comment-page-1/#comment-74725 Mountain Man Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:27:56 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/04/castrating-the-constitution-the-real-stakes-in-08/#comment-74725 Dr K doesn't address a single issue in the article, but instead employs misdirection to attempt to steer the conversation away. "taught constitutional law..." Yeah, fine. However, it is clear based on his pronouncements that BO doesn't understand the constitution. One might wonder what he taught those young skulls full of mush, because it certainly wasn't the constitution. Dr K doesn’t address a single issue in the article, but instead employs misdirection to attempt to steer the conversation away.

“taught constitutional law…” Yeah, fine. However, it is clear based on his pronouncements that BO doesn’t understand the constitution. One might wonder what he taught those young skulls full of mush, because it certainly wasn’t the constitution.

]]> By: Dr Kilovolt http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/04/castrating-the-constitution-the-real-stakes-in-08/comment-page-1/#comment-74723 Dr Kilovolt Wed, 05 Nov 2008 20:17:54 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/04/castrating-the-constitution-the-real-stakes-in-08/#comment-74723 Pardon me, but where is your concern over Bush and Cheney having used the Constitution as toilet paper for the last eight years? The signing statements alone would have the framers turning over in their graves, not to mention unlawful surveillance, casual disregard for civil liberties, and ignoring Congressional subpeonas. I'd rather have someone in office who taught Constitutional law for several years than someone who reportedly called it, "just a goddamned piece of paper." Pardon me, but where is your concern over Bush and Cheney having used the Constitution as toilet paper for the last eight years? The signing statements alone would have the framers turning over in their graves, not to mention unlawful surveillance, casual disregard for civil liberties, and ignoring Congressional subpeonas.

I’d rather have someone in office who taught Constitutional law for several years than someone who reportedly called it, “just a goddamned piece of paper.”

]]> By: Mickey G http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/04/castrating-the-constitution-the-real-stakes-in-08/comment-page-1/#comment-74704 Mickey G Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:39:42 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/04/castrating-the-constitution-the-real-stakes-in-08/#comment-74704 Your analysis seems both accurate and chilling. When you read the documents that indicate the framers meanings and the actual constitution you find a strong presentation of a system that only has enough government to keep the constituent states from serious confrontations with each other. The amendments are similar and also have their writer's intent available to the student. AND the document had the most important item in its design...a method to change it and allow it to keep up with changing circumstances. So, how have we gotten to where we are today? You said it well in your article. The why is more convoluted. It may come from political entities that are out of touch with those that they represent therefore unable to gain the widespread concensus needed to use the tools the framers gave us to amend the constitution. Shudder! How can we elite force the changes we want when our citizens do not want them or do not consider our changes to be a priority? Oh an answer...interpretation forget what it says turn on your inner self and imagine what it should have said then act on this. Your analysis seems both accurate and chilling. When you read the documents that indicate the framers meanings and the actual constitution you find a strong presentation of a system that only has enough government to keep the constituent states from serious confrontations with each other. The amendments are similar and also have their writer’s intent available to the student. AND the document had the most important item in its design…a method to change it and allow it to keep up with changing circumstances.

So, how have we gotten to where we are today? You said it well in your article. The why is more convoluted. It may come from political entities that are out of touch with those that they represent therefore unable to gain the widespread concensus needed to use the tools the framers gave us to amend the constitution. Shudder! How can we elite force the changes we want when our citizens do not want them or do not consider our changes to be a priority? Oh an answer…interpretation forget what it says turn on your inner self and imagine what it should have said then act on this.

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