Comments on: What is the Energy Independence of Ethanol? – Or, is that Even the Right Question? http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/08/what-is-the-energy-independence-of-ethanol-%e2%80%93-or-is-that-even-the-right-question/ Conservative and Libertarian Intellectual Philosophy and Politics Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:00:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: DrumBeat: November 8, 2008 » Ecosilly.com http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/08/what-is-the-energy-independence-of-ethanol-%e2%80%93-or-is-that-even-the-right-question/comment-page-1/#comment-74839 DrumBeat: November 8, 2008 » Ecosilly.com Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:14:12 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/08/what-is-the-energy-independence-of-ethanol-%e2%80%93-or-is-that-even-the-right-question/#comment-74839 [...] What is the Energy Independence of Ethanol? – Or, is that Even the Right Question? Rapier is a chemical-engineer/entrepreneur in the business of rainforest damage mitigation, carbon-sequestration and energy reduction (placing him squarely in the enviro-conservationist camp). He tells us the way our government ethanol proponents have been reporting ethanol yields and comparing them to gasoline confuses conversion efficiency with energy ratio (two entirely different metrics). From Rapier’s analysis, the USDA researchers reported the energy conversion yield of gasoline (0.8) versus the net energy ratio of ethanol (1.22) as if these are equal things; suggesting it takes more energy to produce gasoline than to produce ethanol. In fact, it takes more energy to produce ethanol than gasoline, with or without energy credits. As Rapier elaborates, the conversion efficiency of gasoline is the simple ratio of energy output to input. Thus, to get 100 Btu’s of gasoline you have to burn 20 gallons. Despite involvement of our keepers-of-the-public-trust in this likely deceit, it remains theoretically possible to convert corn or another feedstock to ethanol with a positive NEV. Assuming we do get to that point, ethanol will become the sustainable fuel proponents are hyping. [...] [...] What is the Energy Independence of Ethanol? – Or, is that Even the Right Question? Rapier is a chemical-engineer/entrepreneur in the business of rainforest damage mitigation, carbon-sequestration and energy reduction (placing him squarely in the enviro-conservationist camp). He tells us the way our government ethanol proponents have been reporting ethanol yields and comparing them to gasoline confuses conversion efficiency with energy ratio (two entirely different metrics). From Rapier’s analysis, the USDA researchers reported the energy conversion yield of gasoline (0.8) versus the net energy ratio of ethanol (1.22) as if these are equal things; suggesting it takes more energy to produce gasoline than to produce ethanol. In fact, it takes more energy to produce ethanol than gasoline, with or without energy credits. As Rapier elaborates, the conversion efficiency of gasoline is the simple ratio of energy output to input. Thus, to get 100 Btu’s of gasoline you have to burn 20 gallons. Despite involvement of our keepers-of-the-public-trust in this likely deceit, it remains theoretically possible to convert corn or another feedstock to ethanol with a positive NEV. Assuming we do get to that point, ethanol will become the sustainable fuel proponents are hyping. [...]

]]> By: Mickey G http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/08/what-is-the-energy-independence-of-ethanol-%e2%80%93-or-is-that-even-the-right-question/comment-page-1/#comment-74784 Mickey G Sun, 09 Nov 2008 14:29:27 +0000 http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/11/08/what-is-the-energy-independence-of-ethanol-%e2%80%93-or-is-that-even-the-right-question/#comment-74784 Bob, Ethanol is simply the wrong choice. The ultimate problems associated with Ethanol deal with the current fleet make up, % of ethanol this fleet can burn, fuel distribution network of pipelines, feed stock used in the ethanol process, and heavy taxation of imported ethanol. Contrast all of this with butanol which uses a similar production process, can be burned in any concentration, flows mixed in the pipelines, uses the same feed stock as the current ethanol and will profit from experiments using non-food feed stocks...hopefully hemp. Currently there are several butanol projects underway in the midwest and UK. I am impressed with non-foodstock research and the possibility of hemp which may be grown in marginal soil with minimal care and fertilization. The ethanol industry as currently constituted is a disaster which has helped to drive world food prices higher, resulted in many damaged or destroyed engines when the concentration reached too high. Bob, Ethanol is simply the wrong choice. The ultimate problems associated with Ethanol deal with the current fleet make up, % of ethanol this fleet can burn, fuel distribution network of pipelines, feed stock used in the ethanol process, and heavy taxation of imported ethanol.

Contrast all of this with butanol which uses a similar production process, can be burned in any concentration, flows mixed in the pipelines, uses the same feed stock as the current ethanol and will profit from experiments using non-food feed stocks…hopefully hemp.

Currently there are several butanol projects underway in the midwest and UK. I am impressed with non-foodstock research and the possibility of hemp which may be grown in marginal soil with minimal care and fertilization.

The ethanol industry as currently constituted is a disaster which has helped to drive world food prices higher, resulted in many damaged or destroyed engines when the concentration reached too high.

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