In reviewing Baldwin’s book, I had little interest in Baldwin as a person. I am much more interested in his situation as it reflects or may influence the rights of fathers to be with their children. I think this is a vastly more important issue and it’s important not to confuse Baldwin’s personal life with that of fathers in general.

The current custody system is based upon similar anecdotal assumptions: a few (genuinely) abusive men are used to charcterize men in general and this is used to deprive them of due process and their children. This is a far greater outrage than anything Baldwin’s alleged juvenile behavior might warrent.

–Ireland: a couple of final points:

Unless you write as an intimate of Baldwin, your own knowledge of him is at best anecdotal. Do you really believe that based upon this sort of evidence he should have no contact with her until she is 18?! Do you really believe this will make his daughter happy?! That Baldwin is “liberal” is irrelevant–there are plenty of good liberal dads.

Your concluding line astounds me: “Being apart from her father is good for Ireland”–and you base this upon a few anecdotes! You could not summarize the current position of the California courts more accurately! You could not summarize the current prejudice against fathers more thoroughly!

Funny those were some of the names and adjectives he used while eating his lunch. But he put his little spin on it by adding the f-word and s-word and of course the big one the mf-word, which was why so many patrons were upset. It was a Saturday afternoon while trying to eat their lunch. His favorite word was “worthless” and “stupid” and I believe he used that same language to his daughter’s in the now famous tape. Kim had a hard time dealing with it (in public) but I cannot imagine the difficulty an 11 year old (at that time) should or could deal with it in such a larger public display. I know they never said who leaked the tape to the press. If it was an adult, no matter how bad the tape and language was they should have thought about this child and any humiliation she would feel out ways anything else. I believe Ireland attends a private school in the LA area. Children can be so cruel to one another, I’m sure she was teased relentlessly by them as they made pig sounds and such. He made it an issue when he chooses his own needs over his daughters.

Then said…

The test of a person is to ask ones self, “Would I want anyone in my family to marry someone like me (that)?”>>>

There would be no way in Hell I would ever subject myself to marry that prick, nor would I ever want anyone in my family subjected to that man’s rage and anger. He’s a liberal; he’s loud, obnoxious, extremely arrogant and one of the biggest horses ass’s in the celebrity community. And he believes he’s always right and won’t admit when he’s wrong. He also blames everyone else for his mistakes. He makes a great role model for other loud, obnoxious, extremely arrogant celebrities, like Ben Affleck, Matt Damon and the liberal Hollywood crowd. He should stick to what he knows and his own kind. Maybe the best thing he could do for his daughter is to leave her alone, let her grow up and try to become a healthy (and mentally healthy) and happy teenager. Trying to force her to like him and be with him might cause a great deal of resentment and more damage. Isn’t it what’s best for the child? That might be what is best for her and not for him I’m sorry to say.

Welcome to our discussion group, and excellent question (“What is the name of the syndrome experienced by children of fighting divorced parents?”) ‘Frantic Child of Divorce-Obsessed Alienating Parents Syndrome’, maybe?

Ireland,

As for Basinger “using her daughter as payback”, we only have Baldwin’s word for that so far, and he’s proving an unreliable, self-centered witness. Of course, we have no way of knowing what proof his lawyers produced in court, but he is definitely losing in the public arena; and seems determined to dig that hole still deeper.

On to the custody issue, as a female I may be biased against Mr. Baldwin and may automatically side with Ms. Basinger but if she’s using her daughter as payback that is still wrong. Forcing a child to choose between her parents and edging her on to side with one over the other is also wrong. If Kim or the Court are basing it on his explosive rages and outbursts then I believe the Court should be concerned. I saw him scream at Ireland when she was in a stroller because she was upset and crying, all that did was make her cry more. People looked and shook their heads is disgust. She must have been about 3 at the time.

I don’t believe he’s a man of great patience, he’s the “my time is money” type, and everything now, hurry up. Someone who has no patience and a volatile personality doesn’t exactly warrant a person to run up and hug them. When the tape was released I wasn’t surprised by his anger or the fact he called his daughter a “pig” and know matter what he should not have taken his frustration out on her. There is something psychologically wrong with his personality and it’s with most of the Baldwin’s. Daniel has some of the same issues. Billy has some issues as well. The youngest brother, Stephen got help, became a Christian and appears to be healthy and happy, well adjusted. Alec appears to blame others too much for the setbacks in his life, instead of looking inward and trying to change himself for the better. He demands respect always, even when he sometimes doesn’t deserve it.

They’ve been a volatile couple from the moment they met while filming “The Marrying Man” total opposites and their on set fights were legendary with flying chairs and everything. I’m sure it provided them with some great makeup sex, but not for everyday living. Neil Simon, who wrote the screenplay, had to deal with their sometime ridiculous demands. It was not a very pleasant experience for him. He was an adult, think about what it must be like for a 13 year old. All this is forcing her to grow up very fast and in the public arena, which is not good. She’ll need therapy, if she’s not already getting it.

You aren’t by any chance that Ireland, are you? Don’t answer that, but, if you are, your knowledge is deeper than you imply (otherwise, one heck of a coincidence).

Ivan and Nathan,

Don’t be too quick to judge Baldwin the poster-child of maligned dads just yet. Apparently, there have been multiple reports of his bad temper and rudeness, in and out of public, that make Ireland’s remarks somewhat more relevant.

http://www.hotmommagossip.com/2008/07/22/alec-baldwin-gets-a-little-angry-with-diane-sawyer/ – Baldwin having meltdown while promoting book rationalizing the angry-dad syndrome; Baldwin claims it was blown out of all proportion

http://talk.livedaily.com/archive/index.php/t-526900.html – traumatized Jan Maxwell leaves Broadway show because of Baldwin behaviors (e.g., fist through walls), Baldwin blames her and insinuates she has issues

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1709576/posts – terrorized co-star Sarah Michelle Gellar, Baldwin screaming at lawyer on phone, and drove hairstylist from set; friends who cover for him

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10132006/gossip/pagesix/pipe_down__alec_pagesix_.htm – Baldwin screams at cop at accident scene, then unconscionably rude to hotel staff same day; later claims he was just asking directions and would never ever make fun of someone’s English; publicist covers for him

http://showhype.com/story/road_rage/ – Baldwin screams at limo driver following near-miss exiting U.S. Open

http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/1998/cyb19981216.asp – Henry Hyde death threats on Conan; later brushes it off as joke he never meant

See a pattern here? He’s also not above a little slander, as when he accused Matt Drudge of coming on to him.

Though I totally agree with Baldwin the courts are a mess and an open invitation to abuse both by and against parents, I am guessing this book is more about repairing the Baldwin image than a genuine and honest search for root causes. The self-centered arrogance, for one thing, still shines through; elsewhere if not the book. I sympathize with any parent put through this, but that sympathy extends as much or more to Basinger as Baldwin. We only have a negative of evidence and innuendo against Basinger, whereas we have some very real displays of rage from Baldwin.

We know Baldwin took his red-hot temper out on his 10-year old daughter. His highly-public, taped-tirade went well beyond a parent losing it because it was all about him – not about misbehaviors by a daughter any reasonable parent would call to account. He wasn’t telling her to butt out of their fights or of lying against him in court. She was simply avoiding him and wouldn’t return his calls, however unfairly. Let’s be generous toward both Baldwin’s by assuming this was her not wanting to be in the middle of her parents fight and he was justifiably miffed by that. A reasoning dad realizes what the kid is doing and is okay with that, however hurt we may feel. The rational dad leaves a message saying he is disappointed but understands, and hopes she will make time in her life for him later. If he lets out his anger at all, it will be at his ex-wife (for manipulating the daughter against him), though not within her hearing. Let’s assume, though (worst case), she was taking sides in her parents dispute (despite Baldwin never implies this either in the tape or elsewhere). Would that justify the tirade we heard from him? I have blown up at my own kid, so I appreciate how hard it is keeping your cool. The rare times I did, it was because my son was defiantly pushing every button he could find. But, I have never blown up at my kid solely because he wouldn’t show me the love or respect I’d hope from him; and never would. Combining the public and private evidence of a Baldwin who makes things hot for others at the drop of a hat, the charges Basinger makes of a father and husband who is a threat have greater substance.

I would have hoped Baldwin’s book would have resulted in some soul searching, but, as both this and a review by Bernard Chapin (see “Brave Story” http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A34PAZQ73SL163?ie=UTF8&display=public&sort%5Fby=MostRecentReview&page=3 ) suggest, that’s not much in evidence. Instead, he seems to be distracting us from his role in his personal humiliation.