Comments on: Critiquing the Employee Free Choice Act

By: Thursday This Week is EFCA Update Day! « The Ohio Labor Lawyers

Thursday This Week is EFCA Update Day! « The Ohio Labor Lawyers — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:31:45 +0000

[...] Choice Act by dissecting all arguments – business, union, academia – before concluding that EFCA is not beneficial for our economy or our [...]

By: Mickey G

Mickey G — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:00:23 +0000

Aaron, sounds like you find a problem with my proposal which suggests you do not like the idea of card checks (said tongue in cheek) either as indicated in your article.

There is, however no difference in the effect of non-secret ballots somebody knows too much and can cause untold grief. Maybe that is the idea behind secret ballots. EFCA then sounds like a bad idea.

By: Aaron Rodriguez

Aaron Rodriguez — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:44:20 +0000

Mickey,

If secret ballot were replaced by a card-check system in U.S. elections, it would give the government entirely too much information about voters. Think what could happen if our government became more malicious?

By: hvance

hvance — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:19:48 +0000

Mickey G, You realize when you make a typo, others in this discussion not only misspell, but are not aware of grammatical errors that they make. Don’t sweat it.

By: Mickey G

Mickey G — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:40:44 +0000

guess I should proof read and spell right correctly instead of righ

By: Mickey G

Mickey G — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:39:58 +0000

Wow this discussion has drifted. Seems to me that this should be broadened to guarantee that ALL elections held in the USA at any level should be handled without recourse to secret ballots. It should also require that records be kept showing how each person voted on any issue and be a matter of public record.

Of course, if the broadening does not feel righ to you, then you understand what a terrible idea the EFCA represents.

By: hvance

hvance — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:43:37 +0000

deberg, thanks for toning down the rhetoric by calling me a fool. I feel sorry for you.

By: Patrick DeBerg

Patrick DeBerg — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:48:20 +0000

Hvance,
Why don’t you tone down your rhetoric a bit hmmm? I never said you stole the election, merely pointed out the trouble with the secret ballet in those states. You sir should be far more troubled about this affront to democracy
than you seem. To you it would seem it’s about who wins or loses, to me it’s about the integrity of the process.
It seems you would rather live in a banana republic as long as you win. This says much about who you are.
Heavy lifting? Hello! The 1000 people in a factory DO the heavy lifting. That’s how a plant works sir. Don’t spend much time on a shop floor do you? The boss does make money off “our backs” thats how it works. I don’t understand the problems you seem to have with simple fact.
I never once said unions are going under be cause of Bernie I said the banks were going under because of the type of behavior he exibited. You say everything is a talking point but use facts that are easy to see.
Only a fool would say employees have no investment in a company. They are on the floor everyday sir. Many of them invest to find their investment was stripped away by some ceo bonus or get lost package. I will get to companies soon but have a life and a job so can’t spend every waking hour at this effort. Give me time and we will see. Refer to the questions by the EFCA posting above I notice you and Aaron have all but ignored it. By the way, there is a theory posited that within 30 posts on a blog one or the other antagonist will make a reference to Nazism as the argument intensifies. As you can see hvance you prove the theory hold water. Here is a bone to chew on old boy, In the last election the majority of us stayed on topic and threw your ass out on the street. Our jobs din’t die, you killed them

By: hvance

hvance — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:22:15 +0000

Aaron, You will note that DeBerg has never stayed on topic because he has no leg on which to stand. He recites to same old rhetoric each time, “you stold the election”, “secret ballots aren’t fair” ( if the union is such a great deal why do they fear a secret ballot?), “workers do all of the heavy lifting”, “the boss makes money on our backs”, “Unions are going under because of Bernie Madoff” , “employees deserve a share in the company without investment”, etc., etc., etc. Have you noticed how when asked to name one, not a hundred, company that has been made better by a union that he starts into his Joseph Goebbels’ routine? It’s really sad to see guys like Deberg led down the path of socialism. They do not realize that that is the death of their jobs.

By: Aaron Rodriguez

Aaron Rodriguez — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:41:43 +0000

“Because the vote was too far apart in the other states! Only in Florida and Ohio was the vote close enough fo merit the attention. That Aaron, is the point I’m trying to make.”

You haven’t addressed the fallacy. If Florida and Ohio are proof that secret ballot elections are flawed, then why don’t we see the problems of these two states widely spread at every election? furthermore, I see no reason to believe that the problems that erupted in Florida and Ohio are a problem with the secret ballot, but rather a problem with local ballot counting when elections are close – which hasn’t been much of an issue in other states. The point you seem to be missing is the significance of “secret” in a secret ballot process. And the concept of “secrecy” has no logical connection to hanging chads or ballot recounting. You have yet to show that any other election process is better than a secret ballot, and until you do this, the unions are clearly unjustified in their position with the Employee Free Choice Act.

“As far as the nature of unions, why is growth a bad word with you?”

I don’t recall saying that union growth is bad. My point is that union bodies are very much like corporations. Their primary purpose is to grow, not to represent the people or to put the best interests of the employee first. This, I believe, is the reason why unions are willing to discard the secret ballot process – not because there is some inherent flaw in the process.

“And all that was offered to them was you didn’t work hard enough, fast enough, long enough. You didn’t save enough you were foolish, naive, stupid. You were not carrying enough health care. A massive fraud was perpetrated on the American people that they were not responsible for and the madoffs of the world just shrugged their shoulders.”

This is getting away from the topic. My problem isn’t with unions. My problem is with them trashing the secret ballot, which has been a great value to our society by protecting the privacy of the citizenry as they enter the election process. In my mind, there is no justification great enough to remove the right of privacy from individuals.