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	<title>Comments on: Classical Conservatism: A Return to a Politics of Humility</title>
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	<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/07/16/classical-conservatism-a-return-to-a-politics-of-humility/</link>
	<description>Conservative and Libertarian Intellectual Philosophy and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Patrick Mulligan</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/07/16/classical-conservatism-a-return-to-a-politics-of-humility/comment-page-1/#comment-78949</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Mulligan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Whoops! Disregard the mystery &quot;it&quot; on the end there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops! Disregard the mystery &#8220;it&#8221; on the end there.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Mulligan</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/07/16/classical-conservatism-a-return-to-a-politics-of-humility/comment-page-1/#comment-78948</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Mulligan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, it is true that Iran is hardly undergoing a secular overthrow. Perhaps too strong a choice of words on my part. The sentiment is the same though - lending nothing more than rhetorical support would hardly have constituted an intervention, liberation or strong-arming of any sort, and therefore wouldn&#039;t really represent an exercise in American hubris. It</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it is true that Iran is hardly undergoing a secular overthrow. Perhaps too strong a choice of words on my part. The sentiment is the same though &#8211; lending nothing more than rhetorical support would hardly have constituted an intervention, liberation or strong-arming of any sort, and therefore wouldn&#8217;t really represent an exercise in American hubris. It</p>
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		<title>By: andy3783</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/07/16/classical-conservatism-a-return-to-a-politics-of-humility/comment-page-1/#comment-78945</link>
		<dc:creator>andy3783</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;supporting the people in Iran who reject theocratic rule&quot;

Patrick, I think that you&#039;re projecting your own hopes about the reasons and results for the uprising. The reasons may not necessarily be a rejection of a theocratic rule, and the results certainly wouldn&#039;t be the end of the status quo. Most people in Iran still support the revolution - their anger is about corruption rather than the structure of their society. And in fact, many Iranian friends I have spoken with were happier with a subdued response from the US than a Bush-style intervention. They do not want to be &quot;liberated&quot; by American troops, and they do not want a western-style democracy. The humility that Jack writes about is a humility in accepting that not all societies strive to imitate the US-style of democracy and freedom, and that they have the right to implement change in their own ways and without external interference.

Whatever Obama&#039;s intentions were, I think we need a re-think of the inverventionist style of politics that has dominated (both left and right) for the last decade. We need to understand when intervention can help (e.g. Rwanda), and when alternative approaches would achieve better results (e.g. Iraq).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;supporting the people in Iran who reject theocratic rule&#8221;</p>
<p>Patrick, I think that you&#8217;re projecting your own hopes about the reasons and results for the uprising. The reasons may not necessarily be a rejection of a theocratic rule, and the results certainly wouldn&#8217;t be the end of the status quo. Most people in Iran still support the revolution &#8211; their anger is about corruption rather than the structure of their society. And in fact, many Iranian friends I have spoken with were happier with a subdued response from the US than a Bush-style intervention. They do not want to be &#8220;liberated&#8221; by American troops, and they do not want a western-style democracy. The humility that Jack writes about is a humility in accepting that not all societies strive to imitate the US-style of democracy and freedom, and that they have the right to implement change in their own ways and without external interference.</p>
<p>Whatever Obama&#8217;s intentions were, I think we need a re-think of the inverventionist style of politics that has dominated (both left and right) for the last decade. We need to understand when intervention can help (e.g. Rwanda), and when alternative approaches would achieve better results (e.g. Iraq).</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Mulligan</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/07/16/classical-conservatism-a-return-to-a-politics-of-humility/comment-page-1/#comment-78927</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Mulligan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/?p=6379#comment-78927</guid>
		<description>Two things made Obama&#039;s reaction - or lack thereof - to the turmoil in Iran less, eh, humble, than the article would imply. The first is the motivation for the lack of resonse. Politics of humility, as the author mentions, are not the O-man&#039;s style by a long shot. No, the motivation for keeping mum on Iran was pandering to the tyranical, Messianic despot who had just &quot;won&quot; (wink-wink) the so-called election. Pandering to tyranical religious despots in the middle east has been a cornerstone of Obama foreign policy. While it may be argued that it would have been jumping the gun to support the Iranian revolutionaries since they may have installed an imperfect government based on foolish principles, it&#039;s hard to imagine them possibly doing any worse than what they have now, and something stronger than &quot;Let&#039;s wait and see who the Ayatollah anoints and then send them a gift basket&quot; probably couldn&#039;t have hurt. It isn&#039;t exactly like the alternative to saying next to nothing was a war guarantee a-la 1939 Poland.

The second is that the lack of response is uncharacteristic with Obama&#039;s rhetoric towards other nations (Honduras as a case in point) to such an extreme extent as to appear hypocritical. Obama couldn&#039;t get a press release out fast enough condemning the &quot;coup&quot; in Honduras and insisting upon the re-installation of the, as we have been reminded constantly, &lt;i&gt;democratically elected&lt;/i&gt; president (who just happened to have been ousted by the Supreme Court for violating the constitution and attempting to install himself as a permanent leader - the kind of thing that worked out so well in Venezuela). And that&#039;s just one example. With that in mind, it&#039;s difficult to swallow the principled non-interventionist line when it comes to Iran.

Additionally, I really do not see how the humility of the United States was affected one way or the other by ignoring and then downplaying a historic political event in another country. You&#039;re anti-war, and you believe America should stand down and sit in UN-designated corner wearing a dunce cap for a while and think about what it did, and that&#039;s great and everything, but rhetorically and psychologically supporting the people in Iran who reject theocratic rule by insane totalitarians doesn&#039;t really change America&#039;s &quot;standing&quot; one way or the other. Handing an ultimatum to the Supreme Court of a sovereign country who has legally removed their president from office for violating their law, on the other hand, may have just the faintest hint of hubris to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two things made Obama&#8217;s reaction &#8211; or lack thereof &#8211; to the turmoil in Iran less, eh, humble, than the article would imply. The first is the motivation for the lack of resonse. Politics of humility, as the author mentions, are not the O-man&#8217;s style by a long shot. No, the motivation for keeping mum on Iran was pandering to the tyranical, Messianic despot who had just &#8220;won&#8221; (wink-wink) the so-called election. Pandering to tyranical religious despots in the middle east has been a cornerstone of Obama foreign policy. While it may be argued that it would have been jumping the gun to support the Iranian revolutionaries since they may have installed an imperfect government based on foolish principles, it&#8217;s hard to imagine them possibly doing any worse than what they have now, and something stronger than &#8220;Let&#8217;s wait and see who the Ayatollah anoints and then send them a gift basket&#8221; probably couldn&#8217;t have hurt. It isn&#8217;t exactly like the alternative to saying next to nothing was a war guarantee a-la 1939 Poland.</p>
<p>The second is that the lack of response is uncharacteristic with Obama&#8217;s rhetoric towards other nations (Honduras as a case in point) to such an extreme extent as to appear hypocritical. Obama couldn&#8217;t get a press release out fast enough condemning the &#8220;coup&#8221; in Honduras and insisting upon the re-installation of the, as we have been reminded constantly, <i>democratically elected</i> president (who just happened to have been ousted by the Supreme Court for violating the constitution and attempting to install himself as a permanent leader &#8211; the kind of thing that worked out so well in Venezuela). And that&#8217;s just one example. With that in mind, it&#8217;s difficult to swallow the principled non-interventionist line when it comes to Iran.</p>
<p>Additionally, I really do not see how the humility of the United States was affected one way or the other by ignoring and then downplaying a historic political event in another country. You&#8217;re anti-war, and you believe America should stand down and sit in UN-designated corner wearing a dunce cap for a while and think about what it did, and that&#8217;s great and everything, but rhetorically and psychologically supporting the people in Iran who reject theocratic rule by insane totalitarians doesn&#8217;t really change America&#8217;s &#8220;standing&#8221; one way or the other. Handing an ultimatum to the Supreme Court of a sovereign country who has legally removed their president from office for violating their law, on the other hand, may have just the faintest hint of hubris to it.</p>
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