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	<title>Comments on: Simply Juvenile or a Breach in Journalistic Ethics</title>
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	<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/12/01/simply-juvenile-or-a-breach-in-journalistic-ethics/</link>
	<description>Conservative and Libertarian Intellectual Philosophy and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: libertykid</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/12/01/simply-juvenile-or-a-breach-in-journalistic-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-80770</link>
		<dc:creator>libertykid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 05:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/?p=7121#comment-80770</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a senior at Liberty, and I have to say, that book is almost spot on. Yes, there&#039;s some idiosyncrasies at Liberty, and yes, it&#039;s its own culture in many ways. A lot of those things are absolutely fine, and some of those I do think we should fix. As someone who personally knows a lot of the people he refers to in the book (such as some of the people on his mission trip to the beach, and the GNED prof who looks like an insurance agent, I can validate a lot of his claims. 

As for his &quot;bias&quot;... you can&#039;t tell me that you would walk into any situation completely neutral and unbiased. I&#039;m sure as the author of such a piece that defends Liberty, you can&#039;t tell me that you wouldn&#039;t go to the Berkeley campus in California completely unbiased. Of course you would be looking for ultra-liberal ideas to be pouring out of it. The same goes for Liberty. People come to Liberty looking for the ultra-conservative ideas to present themselves. If they didn&#039;t, I would be afraid Liberty wasn&#039;t doing what it does best, and that is standing up for what it believes. You know when people visit because they want to see what all the talk is about that you must be doing something right.

In his book, Roose doesn&#039;t even really rip on LU that much. He really does show very even-handedly how it really is. He presents some things in a much better light than I would expect for someone coming from a school like Brown. Every LU student I know says the exact same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a senior at Liberty, and I have to say, that book is almost spot on. Yes, there&#8217;s some idiosyncrasies at Liberty, and yes, it&#8217;s its own culture in many ways. A lot of those things are absolutely fine, and some of those I do think we should fix. As someone who personally knows a lot of the people he refers to in the book (such as some of the people on his mission trip to the beach, and the GNED prof who looks like an insurance agent, I can validate a lot of his claims. </p>
<p>As for his &#8220;bias&#8221;&#8230; you can&#8217;t tell me that you would walk into any situation completely neutral and unbiased. I&#8217;m sure as the author of such a piece that defends Liberty, you can&#8217;t tell me that you wouldn&#8217;t go to the Berkeley campus in California completely unbiased. Of course you would be looking for ultra-liberal ideas to be pouring out of it. The same goes for Liberty. People come to Liberty looking for the ultra-conservative ideas to present themselves. If they didn&#8217;t, I would be afraid Liberty wasn&#8217;t doing what it does best, and that is standing up for what it believes. You know when people visit because they want to see what all the talk is about that you must be doing something right.</p>
<p>In his book, Roose doesn&#8217;t even really rip on LU that much. He really does show very even-handedly how it really is. He presents some things in a much better light than I would expect for someone coming from a school like Brown. Every LU student I know says the exact same thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Northerne Belle</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/12/01/simply-juvenile-or-a-breach-in-journalistic-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-80764</link>
		<dc:creator>Northerne Belle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/?p=7121#comment-80764</guid>
		<description>The subtitle of the book in your review is wrong: it&#039;s a sinner&#039;s SEMESTER, not seminar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The subtitle of the book in your review is wrong: it&#8217;s a sinner&#8217;s SEMESTER, not seminar.</p>
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		<title>By: LibertyStudent</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/12/01/simply-juvenile-or-a-breach-in-journalistic-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-80521</link>
		<dc:creator>LibertyStudent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 16:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/?p=7121#comment-80521</guid>
		<description>Sir, You are the reason the divide is so great. You seem very angry and judgmental. The way this review is written is conveys the stereotype Roose had of evangelicals. 

Have you ever been to Liberty? As a student I found his book refreshing and a incredibly accurate representation of the school. Liberty University is not perfect! We have out flaws like any other school but like he said there is something special here. He said it himself that even after leaving Liberty, the school still affects him. Please try and get past your judgment and give Roose a second chance. I recommend the book to everyone including people who are considering enrolling in LU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sir, You are the reason the divide is so great. You seem very angry and judgmental. The way this review is written is conveys the stereotype Roose had of evangelicals. </p>
<p>Have you ever been to Liberty? As a student I found his book refreshing and a incredibly accurate representation of the school. Liberty University is not perfect! We have out flaws like any other school but like he said there is something special here. He said it himself that even after leaving Liberty, the school still affects him. Please try and get past your judgment and give Roose a second chance. I recommend the book to everyone including people who are considering enrolling in LU.</p>
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		<title>By: ruminator</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/12/01/simply-juvenile-or-a-breach-in-journalistic-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-80516</link>
		<dc:creator>ruminator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 03:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/?p=7121#comment-80516</guid>
		<description>Canadian: you are apologizing for making a juvenile remark about someone&#039;s calling someone &quot;juvenile?&quot;
Your comments about the article are open to challenge, just like the article is. No harm done, in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Canadian: you are apologizing for making a juvenile remark about someone&#8217;s calling someone &#8220;juvenile?&#8221;<br />
Your comments about the article are open to challenge, just like the article is. No harm done, in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: A_Canadian_eh</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/12/01/simply-juvenile-or-a-breach-in-journalistic-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-80510</link>
		<dc:creator>A_Canadian_eh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 16:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/?p=7121#comment-80510</guid>
		<description>Re my post (#7) above - my last paragraph was inappropriate, uncalled for, and could even be fairly characterized as &quot;simply juvenile&quot;. I sincerely apologize to Dr. Wagner.  (I would remove it if I knew how to edit a post!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re my post (#7) above &#8211; my last paragraph was inappropriate, uncalled for, and could even be fairly characterized as &#8220;simply juvenile&#8221;. I sincerely apologize to Dr. Wagner.  (I would remove it if I knew how to edit a post!)</p>
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		<title>By: Chasm</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/12/01/simply-juvenile-or-a-breach-in-journalistic-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-80501</link>
		<dc:creator>Chasm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/?p=7121#comment-80501</guid>
		<description>After reading this and another book &quot;review&quot; (Muslim Mafia: Inside the Secret Underworld That&#039;s Conspiring to Islamize America) on this page, I&#039;ve got to say I&#039;ve never learned less about 2 books while reading a review in all my life.  In neither case do the authors talk about any actual events in the books at all, merely spout on about how great/offensive the books are and how revealing/damming the books are of their purported subjects.

Just as the MM review pumped up the danger of a Muslim advocacy group (GASP!) advocating for Muslims into a crisis (OMG! We&#039;re all going to have to adhere to Sharia if this goes on), this reviewer decides that simply calling the author bad names and slighting his journalistic integrity is a &#039;review.&#039;

Clearly, this author thought he had a slam dunk - judging from the response of former Liberty students, this review is just a dunk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading this and another book &#8220;review&#8221; (Muslim Mafia: Inside the Secret Underworld That&#8217;s Conspiring to Islamize America) on this page, I&#8217;ve got to say I&#8217;ve never learned less about 2 books while reading a review in all my life.  In neither case do the authors talk about any actual events in the books at all, merely spout on about how great/offensive the books are and how revealing/damming the books are of their purported subjects.</p>
<p>Just as the MM review pumped up the danger of a Muslim advocacy group (GASP!) advocating for Muslims into a crisis (OMG! We&#8217;re all going to have to adhere to Sharia if this goes on), this reviewer decides that simply calling the author bad names and slighting his journalistic integrity is a &#8216;review.&#8217;</p>
<p>Clearly, this author thought he had a slam dunk &#8211; judging from the response of former Liberty students, this review is just a dunk.</p>
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		<title>By: ggopper</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/12/01/simply-juvenile-or-a-breach-in-journalistic-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-80498</link>
		<dc:creator>ggopper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/?p=7121#comment-80498</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;m not quite sure who this Mr. Wagner is, but I do know for a fact that he has taken Roose&#039;s work FAR TOO SERIOUSLY. I currently attend Liberty University, and even I have found this article as annoying as he found Roose&#039;s book. Wagner seems deeply offended by Roose, judging by the tone of this article. Yet, Roose&#039;s intention was not to offend but to explore and to entertain. He did a much better job than most students in America could have done, perhaps than even the vast majority of seasoned journalists in the biased media today. He could have done much more to tarnish or &quot;bash&quot; everything for Liberty University stands. But he was honest--strikingly candid!--and, for that, he has my respect as a student and professional journalist. 

Roose did what journalists do--journal; and he did it well. He even succeeded in having his book published! He, in the spirit of the late Dr. Falwell, accomplished his very own BHAG. Roose had a vision, and he made it a reality; he COMPLETED his assignment.

Futhermore, Roose&#039;s self-serving attempt to advance his career as a journalist was a pretty darn good one, if you ask me. In fact, regardless of how Wagner feels about him, he&#039;s been experiencing a fair amount of publicity as a result of his endeavors, and, THAT, my friends, IS HOW IT&#039;S DONE. The most risky, but at the same time, surefire way to make a name for oneself as a journalist is to write on something strikingly controversial on which no one has ere shed light. But to write on something so controversial is a monumental task that requires tact, discretion and skillful moderation. It creates greater demand for one&#039;s work, time, energy, ideas, etc. 

Yes, Mr. Wagner; perhaps his work has offended you because of his &quot;unprofessionalism&quot; or his crafty and deceptive tactics, but Roose effectively has done what very, very few students have ever done. He has written something definitively controversial; he gave people what they love to read! Oh, and, by the way...

...it&#039;s sold right in our own campus bookstore (right up front, too!). How&#039;s THAT for irony?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m not quite sure who this Mr. Wagner is, but I do know for a fact that he has taken Roose&#8217;s work FAR TOO SERIOUSLY. I currently attend Liberty University, and even I have found this article as annoying as he found Roose&#8217;s book. Wagner seems deeply offended by Roose, judging by the tone of this article. Yet, Roose&#8217;s intention was not to offend but to explore and to entertain. He did a much better job than most students in America could have done, perhaps than even the vast majority of seasoned journalists in the biased media today. He could have done much more to tarnish or &#8220;bash&#8221; everything for Liberty University stands. But he was honest&#8211;strikingly candid!&#8211;and, for that, he has my respect as a student and professional journalist. </p>
<p>Roose did what journalists do&#8211;journal; and he did it well. He even succeeded in having his book published! He, in the spirit of the late Dr. Falwell, accomplished his very own BHAG. Roose had a vision, and he made it a reality; he COMPLETED his assignment.</p>
<p>Futhermore, Roose&#8217;s self-serving attempt to advance his career as a journalist was a pretty darn good one, if you ask me. In fact, regardless of how Wagner feels about him, he&#8217;s been experiencing a fair amount of publicity as a result of his endeavors, and, THAT, my friends, IS HOW IT&#8217;S DONE. The most risky, but at the same time, surefire way to make a name for oneself as a journalist is to write on something strikingly controversial on which no one has ere shed light. But to write on something so controversial is a monumental task that requires tact, discretion and skillful moderation. It creates greater demand for one&#8217;s work, time, energy, ideas, etc. </p>
<p>Yes, Mr. Wagner; perhaps his work has offended you because of his &#8220;unprofessionalism&#8221; or his crafty and deceptive tactics, but Roose effectively has done what very, very few students have ever done. He has written something definitively controversial; he gave people what they love to read! Oh, and, by the way&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;it&#8217;s sold right in our own campus bookstore (right up front, too!). How&#8217;s THAT for irony?!</p>
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		<title>By: splunka</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/12/01/simply-juvenile-or-a-breach-in-journalistic-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-80496</link>
		<dc:creator>splunka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/?p=7121#comment-80496</guid>
		<description>Here is a review from an actual Liberty student that read the book and did not like it: http://www.cmscott.com/the-unlikely-disciple-book-review-from-a-liberty-student/

@ robrichards -- I think that contradicts with your assertion that &quot;you will be hard pressed to find anyone here at Liberty University who does think Roose&#039;s book a fair assessment by an outsider.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a review from an actual Liberty student that read the book and did not like it: <a href="http://www.cmscott.com/the-unlikely-disciple-book-review-from-a-liberty-student/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cmscott.com/the-unlikely-disciple-book-review-from-a-liberty-student/</a></p>
<p>@ robrichards &#8212; I think that contradicts with your assertion that &#8220;you will be hard pressed to find anyone here at Liberty University who does think Roose&#8217;s book a fair assessment by an outsider.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: A_Canadian_eh</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/12/01/simply-juvenile-or-a-breach-in-journalistic-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-80495</link>
		<dc:creator>A_Canadian_eh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/?p=7121#comment-80495</guid>
		<description>Dr. Wagner,
 As parents of a daughter who enrolled in Liberty this fall, we were quite interested to hear about this book and checked out a copy shortly after we returned from visiting the campus in August.  All I can say is that you must have read a different book than we did - and it was obviously written by a different author!

  There are some obvious problems, of course, one of which is the deceit which Mr. Roose practiced - but from a purely pragmatic viewpoint it is clearly the only way he could have obtained the insights he did - to have declared himelf openly would never have given him the uncensored view of Liberty Life that he received.  I will in no way attempt to justify this deceit - but I will point out that it is hardly unique in the world of journalism. (And frankly, your attempt to contast this with infiltrating the Mafia is absurd - the &quot;infilration&quot; wasn&#039;t for fear of his life, it was so that he could see people &quot;being themselves&quot; in their own environment.)

 A second problem (in my mind probably the biggest criticism of all) is that too much of his anecdotal experience is reported as being representative of Liberty. A related issue are a few (likely less than a half dozen) instances in which some pronouncements by Jerry Falwell or other Liberty spokespeople are reported somewhat out of context (and which Liberty U has responded to while allowing the book to be sold on campus). In this area he does, IMHO, fall somewhat short of the best of journalistic standards.

  However, the above reservations are minor compared to the lessons to be learned from this book.  It is a gift to see ourselves as other see us, and Mr. Roose has given those who are involved with Liberty U (leadership, faculty, students, parents, supporters, etc.) the gift of seeing how someone from a completely non-evangelical / non-fundamentalist background sees us.  The picture is not always pretty (and not always completely fair) but it includes much from which we can learn and grow.  In some areas the picture is not very pleasant (which is probably an understatement) - and those may well be the areas in which the most growth and improvement can occur.  There is not a doubt in my mind that as Liberty students and leadership see themselves portrayed in these pages the result will be growth and improvement in personal lives and in the life of Liberty U itself - and you can find any number of students and faculty who agree with this.

  Finally, I believe you have provided an extremely unfair portrayal of Mr. Roose&#039;s character in your review.  The arrogant, close-minded, pre-judging young man you portray was not present in the book that I read. May I simply quote Mr. Roose himself and say that you would do well to consider his words &quot;..but by experiencing your warmth, your vigorous generosity of spirit, and your deep complexity, I was ultimately convinced—not that you were right, necessarily, but that I was wrong..&quot;

For those who may be interested, may I suggest checking out the review at christianitytoday.com written by a Liberty U faculty member as a far more balanced and perceptive overview of this book.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/columns/bookoftheweek/090323.html?start=1

The intellectual conservative website is a new one to me - for the moment I will choose to consider this review as anecdotal and not representative regarding the &quot;intellectual&quot; part of this website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Wagner,<br />
 As parents of a daughter who enrolled in Liberty this fall, we were quite interested to hear about this book and checked out a copy shortly after we returned from visiting the campus in August.  All I can say is that you must have read a different book than we did &#8211; and it was obviously written by a different author!</p>
<p>  There are some obvious problems, of course, one of which is the deceit which Mr. Roose practiced &#8211; but from a purely pragmatic viewpoint it is clearly the only way he could have obtained the insights he did &#8211; to have declared himelf openly would never have given him the uncensored view of Liberty Life that he received.  I will in no way attempt to justify this deceit &#8211; but I will point out that it is hardly unique in the world of journalism. (And frankly, your attempt to contast this with infiltrating the Mafia is absurd &#8211; the &#8220;infilration&#8221; wasn&#8217;t for fear of his life, it was so that he could see people &#8220;being themselves&#8221; in their own environment.)</p>
<p> A second problem (in my mind probably the biggest criticism of all) is that too much of his anecdotal experience is reported as being representative of Liberty. A related issue are a few (likely less than a half dozen) instances in which some pronouncements by Jerry Falwell or other Liberty spokespeople are reported somewhat out of context (and which Liberty U has responded to while allowing the book to be sold on campus). In this area he does, IMHO, fall somewhat short of the best of journalistic standards.</p>
<p>  However, the above reservations are minor compared to the lessons to be learned from this book.  It is a gift to see ourselves as other see us, and Mr. Roose has given those who are involved with Liberty U (leadership, faculty, students, parents, supporters, etc.) the gift of seeing how someone from a completely non-evangelical / non-fundamentalist background sees us.  The picture is not always pretty (and not always completely fair) but it includes much from which we can learn and grow.  In some areas the picture is not very pleasant (which is probably an understatement) &#8211; and those may well be the areas in which the most growth and improvement can occur.  There is not a doubt in my mind that as Liberty students and leadership see themselves portrayed in these pages the result will be growth and improvement in personal lives and in the life of Liberty U itself &#8211; and you can find any number of students and faculty who agree with this.</p>
<p>  Finally, I believe you have provided an extremely unfair portrayal of Mr. Roose&#8217;s character in your review.  The arrogant, close-minded, pre-judging young man you portray was not present in the book that I read. May I simply quote Mr. Roose himself and say that you would do well to consider his words &#8220;..but by experiencing your warmth, your vigorous generosity of spirit, and your deep complexity, I was ultimately convinced—not that you were right, necessarily, but that I was wrong..&#8221;</p>
<p>For those who may be interested, may I suggest checking out the review at christianitytoday.com written by a Liberty U faculty member as a far more balanced and perceptive overview of this book.<br />
<a href="http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/columns/bookoftheweek/090323.html?start=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/columns/bookoftheweek/090323.html?start=1</a></p>
<p>The intellectual conservative website is a new one to me &#8211; for the moment I will choose to consider this review as anecdotal and not representative regarding the &#8220;intellectual&#8221; part of this website.</p>
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		<title>By: robrichards</title>
		<link>http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2009/12/01/simply-juvenile-or-a-breach-in-journalistic-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-80491</link>
		<dc:creator>robrichards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intellectualconservative.com/?p=7121#comment-80491</guid>
		<description>Dr. Wagner,
You will be hard pressed to find anyone here at Liberty University who does think Roose’s book a fair assessment by an outsider. I’m afraid it is you who doesn’t get it. I think what you really do not understand is that this book is not about “conservative vs liberal” as you seem to want it to be. This book is an exploration of the evangelical world by a secularist, and a fair and honest one at that. Roose avoids the “us vs them” polarization you seem to hold so dear, and we who love Liberty University are better for it. As evangelicals, we seek to avoid this polarization as well, which I’m sure as a “conservative” you do not understand. Your review here is extremely unhelpful; please do not write on matters of which you are unqualified to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Wagner,<br />
You will be hard pressed to find anyone here at Liberty University who does think Roose’s book a fair assessment by an outsider. I’m afraid it is you who doesn’t get it. I think what you really do not understand is that this book is not about “conservative vs liberal” as you seem to want it to be. This book is an exploration of the evangelical world by a secularist, and a fair and honest one at that. Roose avoids the “us vs them” polarization you seem to hold so dear, and we who love Liberty University are better for it. As evangelicals, we seek to avoid this polarization as well, which I’m sure as a “conservative” you do not understand. Your review here is extremely unhelpful; please do not write on matters of which you are unqualified to do so.</p>
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